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Don't Make Me Steal

dontmakemesteal.com

41–50 of 143 posts

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#41
All the arguments below aside, are there any cases where an online petition has had its desired effect on an any large business, let alone an entire industry?

I do ask this both as a jab and as a legitimate curiosity.

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#42
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "stealing" with "watch it without paying".

You're entitled to watch organic bread without paying. The problem with comparing content piracy with theft of physical objects is that the latter are scare and the former is not. I'm not trying to justify content piracy, I'm just saying that you-wouldn't-download-a-car analogies are invalid.

No, you aren't. The response to your silly analogy is, "if I throw a black drape over my organic bread and allow you to see it only after paying for a loaf, you cannot legally enter my shop and remove the drape".

The fact that nobody would set up such a system is evidence that your analogy is unproductive, not that your argument is strong.

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it wouldn't, because the people companies make money from aren't willing to stop watching movies . It would be like saying "I won't walk outside until the city cleans the streets!" It's a promise a majority of people simply won't, or can't, keep.

So, you're saying, if a company is successful at creating and marketing its product and I don't like the price I can steal it?

I PROMISE not to steal the 2011 BMW M3 Coupe SO LONG AS you price it no higher than cost + 5%.

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#44

This can start a copyright flame, but in order to be fair, "steal" should be replaced with "copy".

Technically yes, but it is and always has been a shallow argument to claim that copyright infringement is not theft.

Of course it's not the same to duplicate information as it is to remove a physical item, but both are based on an artificial legal concept of property.

The natural state of things is indeed that I can copy any information coming my way, and copyright artificially restricts my right to do so in the eyes of the law.

Then again, the natural state of things is also that if you have a physical item and I want it, then if I am bigger than you/have a bigger gun than you/have more friends than you, then that item is now my possession and not yours, and theft-related statutes artificially restrict my right to take it in the eyes of the law.

In the end, copyright, like physical property, is an economic tool. Society gives it the force of law to make sure that people don't game the system unfairly. It makes no sense to debate that law, in either letter or spirit, without considering the economic implications of breaking it. Those implications are not zero just because information that already exists can be reproduced with near zero marginal cost and time overhead using modern technology.

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#45
post #35

The whole "languages" section sounds like it was written by somebody with no understanding of how dubbing is produced, who pays for it, and the issues that arise with the rights to these different versions of a film. Often it gets even more complicated with TV Shows. Convenience? Now you're getting completely unreasonable. If you can't filter by all metadata you're going to "steal"? Come on...

We did have people in the workshop that were quite knowledgeable in those areas, but we had to keep the text short to avoid most people just skipping over everything. This is bound to create inaccuracies. As for this point in particular, of course it is unreasonable as it is, legal issues would prevent most of this, but the point is to start a discussion. We also had folks from the European Union there that were really enthusiastic about hopefully getting a case to present to (or rather against) detractors.

The filter thing was because yes, some services do not presently allow you to search for all movies that are dubbed in language X. If you are trying to watch something with your kids, it is pretty annoying to have to look for a movie, then go in the language selection, then choose the language of your liking, and then at the end be told it's not available. It's basic UX imo, but if people don't do it right now, it's worth static.

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#46

I really don't like the "don't make me steal" attitude. It undermines a good society. The creators of this campaign decided that "Purchase should not exceed the cinema price." Really? What if we did that for, say, organic bread. "I won't buy organic bread unless it's x3 or less than the cost of the generic white bread. If it is more expensive, I'm entitled to steal it." Sorry folks, you're entitled to not buy it, not…

In the context of downloading movies not buying is the same as "stealing".

We agree that authors of digital content deserve to get paid, right? Then it doesn't really matter what you call people who manage to avoid paying. This debate over semantics does not help advance the discussion.

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of downloading movies not buying is the same as "stealing".

Replace "stealing" with "watch it without paying".

Assume there is zero distribution and duplication costs for the goods we're talking about.

I'm going to assert that the optimal pricing strategy for these goods is one of per-customer price discrimination, where the price is the highest one the customer can afford and at which the customer still values the content more than the opportunity cost foregone by exchanging money for it.

I would expect this to give an exponential distribution of prices: a few with a very high price, more with somewhat lower, and so on until a very long tail with a very low price (e.g. in the $0.0001 range).

This should give maximum profit to the seller of the content, and simultaneously maximize value for consumers of the content, because all consumers who want to view the product and can afford it get to watch it.

Of course, it assumes a market where arbitrage is impossible, and consumers don't revolt at getting different prices (which they will perceive to be "unfair").

So instead, we have a market with an arbitrary cut-off point for the lowest price segment. That leaves large numbers of marginal people who could get value from the content, but not so much value that they can afford to pay this particular cut-off point, or they can get other things which they perceive to give better value.

At the other end of the spectrum, at the highest price discrimination segments (fan packs, "ultimate" bundles etc.), the people with the most money are probably not being charged enough.

In effect, people who can afford to pay a high price are getting off light, while people who can't afford the lowest price are being excluded completely. Meanwhile, the seller of the content is not making as much money as they could.

Some would say that this is an unfair situation for everybody, except for the richest people.

There are alternative models of paying for content. For example, there could be a combination of a content usage monitoring system, a progressive tax collection mechanism, and redistribution to producers in proportion to how much is consumed.

But above all, I think it's important to get away from the idea that these goods are like physical goods, and getting them for very cheap or free is "stealing". It's intellectually dishonest.

Re: Don't Make Me Steal

#49

If I could watch content on Hulu, Netflix or other in Linux and I didn't want to throw myself in front of the lunatic-driven University bus, I'd be happy. TPB -> "The Italian Job" + 3 hours = me happy. There is NO legal alternative for me. No, I'm not walking 30 miles to Best Buy to waste $30 on a DVD that won't play in my computer that doesn't have a DVD drive. And I don't consider running Win7 in a VM to be reasona…

There are plenty of legal alternatives for you. Indeed, you just mentioned several of them, and another is not to consume that particular content at all and to find your entertainment in some other way.

Please don't pretend anyone somehow forced you to break the law. You chose to do that yourself.

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