Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm • Hacker News Board

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#241

Post by maxsilver » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

krschultz wrote: post #182

maxsilver wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not in the suburbs... Which, as a reminder for urbanists, really translates to "Not in the only place 90% of the nation's population is allowed to live"

It's more like 27% rural, 43% suburb, 29% city. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/12/18/americans...

~80% of the people in the Census Bureau's "29% urban" figure are actually in a suburban neighborhood, that happens to lie within the legal boundary of a urban-designated "city".

It's like saying "Manhattan and Long Island are both in NYC, so they're basically the same".

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#242

Post by jamestimmins » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 11:15 PM UTC

Balanceinfinity wrote: post #165

Some cities simply can't do this, such as Los Angeles, Dallas, and Atlanta. It's not in their DNA. Things are simply too far apart and the infrastructure couldn't hold it. Other cities are moving toward "no cars" by simply allowing gridlock to make driving a car worthless. I visit NYC very often, and we used to take cabs all the time. Now, we never do, unless we have so much luggage we can't manage - it's a nightmare…

There's an important difference between having car-free areas and being entirely car free. The Santa Monica Promenade is actually a good example of this in practice. For several blocks near the beach it's pedestrian-only, and this has made it a destination for shopping and general hanging out. I used to work right near there and it was extremely nice to have somewhere to stroll and people watch without worrying about cars.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#243

Post by greenonions » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 11:19 PM UTC

jroschen wrote: post #236

greenonions wrote: post #111

Iowa City has a pedestrian mall in the heart of downtown and it's the most charming, lively, interesting place in the city. Not to mention, it's safe, fun, and pleasant for all ages. There's music, dancing, a playground, food, etc.

Iowa City and their pedestrian mall is easily one of the best places to spend a couples days at in the Midwest. Being a college town, it’s a bit of an oasis in the Midwest for all sorts of fantastic local restaurants, arts, and people. Without the pedestrian mall, it wouldn’t be half the city it is today. https://thinkiowacity.com

I get an unsecure error viewing that site on mobile.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#244

Post by jamestimmins » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

gok wrote: post #140

US cities have repeatedly tried this. Around 85% of the time, it has been a complete failure and they go back to allowing cars. [1] [1] https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2013/07/25/16th-stre...

From this article, it looks like pedestrian malls are an important piece, but they can't do all of the heavy lifting on their own. There has to be adequate density and multiple purposes so people are organically there at different times of the day to create a sense of safety. This is addressed extensively in The Death and Life of Great American Cities.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#245

Post by osdiab » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 11:48 PM UTC

LIV2 wrote: post #224

Demoneeri wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you are using "heavily subsidized public transport" while using the entierly subsidized road system...

Just about all public road systems are subsidised but are public transport systems?. This will work better in cities with cheap/free public transport

Or if like in some other parts of the world public transit companies can profit off the development around train stations, and then treat the trains as marketing that literally funnels trainloads of people to their profit centers.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#246

Post by asjw » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 11:56 PM UTC

Demoneeri wrote: post #215

HorstG wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only works in bigger cities, where there is plenty of heavily subsidized public transport such as Berlin. Most smaller towns that went car free killed their businesses or made them move to shopping districts on the outskirts which are still reachable by car. Leading to "dead" inner parts of town and very unhappy citizens. Oh, and skyrocketing rents in the subsidized cities such as Berlin...

It's funny that you are using "heavily subsidized public transport" while using the entierly subsidized road system...

Disclaimer: I've been car free for the past three years.

I agree that roads are public infrastructure, but car owners are heavily taxed in Europe, especially some parts of Europe.

In Italy, excluding fuel taxes (which cover 70% of the cost of the fuel BTW) every car owner pays a mandatory "car owning tax" for each car they own, that totals around 5-6 billions euros/year. And it's only the main one, there are several others.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#247

Post by noobermin » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 11:58 PM UTC

taborj wrote: post #235

noobermin wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chasing a rabbit trail here but how many parents have >4 children in the US?

This is a findable answer[0], though this only shows 3 or more children. Looks like 7,008,000 families have 3 or more children. Looking at the same site[1] for the number of people between, say, 15 and 49 (the thought being anyone less than 15 probably isn't a "parent" and anyone over 49 doesn't have children living at home anymore, or at least not ones they need to transport), we get 150.67 million "parents". Some q…

There's certainly one hell of a shift from between 3 and 4 though. And much less for...5 kids which the comment calls out.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#248

Post by stevenwoo » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 12:00 AM UTC

thatswrong0 wrote: post #147

San Francisco had one street block near Union Square closed off for a looong time because of construction, and they put some fake turf on it. Occasionally there would be pop-up events, like a little Christmas fair. I would deliberately walk slightly out of my way to go up that block because it meant no cars and wayyy more room to walk. I loved it and was so disappointed to see it turned into a normal street again. Si…

As a Bay Area resident was amazed to find many streets in Barcelona that had room for eight to ten lanes of cars instead reserve half the width or more for pedestrian walking space/open space outside the touristy areas. Forgot the name but there was one street like this I could see about a mile downhill to the ocean front. The only downside was how many pedestrians smoked.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#249

Post by mntmoss » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 12:39 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #203

wcarron wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope e-scooters never make it out of infancy. Bikes are infinitely more practical and capable. They are more stable at all speeds. They can have significantly more cargo carrying capacity. Bikes can be fitted (for the most part) with different tires/wheels to handle adverse conditions more easily than a scooter can. I hope for the infanticide of e-scooter transportation. It's a grotesque, subooptimal solution than…

I bought a non-electric, but large-wheeled kick scooter a few months ago for getting around NYC. I absolutely love it. Bikes are a little annoying to stop and start; "walking" your bike for a short stretch requires physically dismounting. My scooter allows me to constantly transition between standing, walking, and riding as environmental conditions require. Also... it's stupid, but if I have to wear a helmet to do so…

I basically agree. In my experience as a rider of one, the main downside of urban kick scooters is that they lack infrastructure. They're too slow to be bikes and play in traffic, but their existence tends to offend and frighten pedestrians, even though their control over acceleration is quite good, about as good as someone running. That quality makes them chimerical, one of the most unpredictable users of the road, and one of the factors in me hanging it up was having my day ruined by people getting upset at me.

The biggest real dangers come from grooves and potholes(I took a spill that needed stitches in my younger days, trying to ride inside a groove) and from using pedestrian infrastructure at speed(cross-traffic can lead to near-misses where the car doesn't expect you to jump out so fast, or the bike expects you to plow through and you stop instead).

The electrics are a nifty invention, but also one that makes their character more like bikes. They fit in a little better as all-purpose transports, but they also lack the simple convenience of a light kick scooter.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#250

Post by rtkwe » Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 12:40 AM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #207

rtkwe wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a middle ground where someone isn't wheelchair bound but does have a lot of trouble moving around where people fall through the cracks without cars or other vehicular transport.

Electric trike?

The little mobility scooters? They can help a lot. They're a pain to get from place to place though in the few time's I've been with people using them.