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Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

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Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#91
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always approach these statements with skepticism. Okay, let’s say that there’s no money for the big pharma, what about governments with socialized health care? What about rich people and their loved ones who suffer from cancer? The “not much money in this” aspect seems believable only when the condition is a rare one but cancer is a huge unsolved issue for everyone, including rich people and politicians. How can th…

Further to that point, there is radically more money in big healthcare than there is in big pharma. In the US big healthcare is 8x-10x larger than big pharma. There is a lot of money to be made by big healthcare in any procedure in the US, including one as described by the article. Hospitals, admin, doctors, nurses, techs, medtech, they'll all be thrilled to ring the cash register instead of big pharma.

And “big pharma” or “big health” isn’t a homogenous unit protecting their own interests (well not entirely).

There’s no way one firm won’t pass up on a hundred million to save 50 firms from losing a billion.

The only time that happens is when BigCo gets the government to ban things, regulate the small firms out before they can even start selling stuff, or when the FDA drags its feet for a decade.

The fact the latter happens so often is one of the best reasons for public health insurance (IMO) because the US health industry is in many ways very far from a market where competition can efficiently account for stuff like this. But it’s not as bad to completely squeeze out whole new classes of treatments (new patented drugs is another story) which would be worse case scenario. Instead it tends to work through a million small rules but that only let the big guys exploit new stuff while potentially dragging their feet or charging 10x the cost, rather than completely excluding the market from it.

Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#92

The headlines don't reflect the results reported in the abstract. In particular, a erectile dysfunction rate of 25% at one year is very high. Furthermore, the criteria for cancer oblation seems to be PSA decrease of 75%, which was achieved in 96% of patients. However, one would generally expect a much larger reduction in PSA if the cancer were truly oblated.

The levels of prostate cancer are very much titled toward older males past their sexual prime: https://www.verywellhealth.com/thmb/Imcc48tegbPKpY2cL18sXOIB...

ED may be less of a concern with this group compared to other cancers or diseases. Not to mention the high rates of heart disease at that age in America already causing it.

Plus the rates must be compared to other modern prostate treatment options.

Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For which cancers does this procedure work (assuming your wife didn't have prostate cancer)? I understand 25 k USD feels reasonable if it saves your life without surgery and it's complications, but it steep for "just ultrasound". Do you know why it was that expensive?

MRI is probably the major technical cost. It's fairly high touch and the magnets wear out, so the capital cost of each test is fairly real. That and the professional component. Interventional radiologists are very much in the consultant/handyman/engineer business of "Treatment: $1; knowing where to put it: $9999"

In Japan an you can get an MRI for $160 US I hear

Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm and sing the praises of HiFu. Went to China so my spouse could have a procedure done in 2014. HiFu took 1-2 hours and my wife walked away from the procedure. She was hiking the next day. Tumor was shrinking almost immediately. The alternatives we had were surgery that would have removed part of her abs or weekly treatments of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamoxifen Neither of which was great. Now we had t…

For which cancers does this procedure work (assuming your wife didn't have prostate cancer)? I understand 25 k USD feels reasonable if it saves your life without surgery and it's complications, but it steep for "just ultrasound". Do you know why it was that expensive?

> (assuming your wife didn’t have prostate cancer)

I almost spewed my coffee. At McDonald’s. Thanks for making me get weird looks from other people. XD

Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#96
My father and my uncle both had this surgery (therapy?) to treat prostate cancer, and not only has it been effective (low to no PSA after over a year), their recoveries and post-surgery experiences are significantly better than any of the individual's they talked to who had a traditional prostatectomy. Not to say they are _unaffected_, but their experiences have not been life changing as the experiences of others they know (eg. incontinence).

I'm so happy to see innovative and less invasive treatments for common diseases being approved.

Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#97
post #34

As someone whose family member recently just received a test showing elevated PSA levels (Prostate Cancer indicator); this article is a very real blessing. # Baseline issues with prostate cancer that suck. 1. Don't treat a benign version and possibly live with trouble urinating and follow on problems from that. 2. Don't treat a malignant version and die 3. Treat it and potentially be impotent 4. Treat it and end up w…

If elevated PSA is the only real sign of cancer, then, depending on his age, it's entirely possible your family member could die _with_ prostate cancer rather than _of_ prostate cancer. According to https://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/prostate-cancer-surviv... , 2/3 of "very elderly" men who died of things other than prostate cancer had undiagnosed prostate cancer on autopsy. And, if the cancer is localized, the 5…

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Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MRI is probably the major technical cost. It's fairly high touch and the magnets wear out, so the capital cost of each test is fairly real. That and the professional component. Interventional radiologists are very much in the consultant/handyman/engineer business of "Treatment: $1; knowing where to put it: $9999"

In Japan an you can get an MRI for $160 US I hear

Do you get the radiologist's read for $160? Do they put an ablative ultrasound probe in you and hold it for an hour for $160?

Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing I always think about with ultrasound is how it's used to break up kidney stones. Is there a danger here of breaking up the tumour and thereby allowing cancer cells to spread through the body more easily?

I believe it is using heat (from ultrasound oscillation) to burn them. Cells can't survive the heat.

Yes, I realize that's the intention. My concern is whether ultrasound might unintentionally break up the tumour and release cancerous cells to spread throughout the body.

Re: Ultrasound destroys 80 percent of prostate cancers in one-year study

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Japan an you can get an MRI for $160 US I hear

Do you get the radiologist's read for $160? Do they put an ablative ultrasound probe in you and hold it for an hour for $160?

Honestly I’m not sure with the 160 covers. It’s just another one of those things in our medical system that is priced a bit too high to make sense for a good number of folks. I would like to see healthcare be more accessible.
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