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First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

cbc.ca

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Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#41
I found this article by the CBC more informative then the one linked: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/electric-sea...

> "It's a prototype for sure," said McDougall, "but in every way it's a high-tech piece of equipment, which is kind of ironic considering the airframe that it's attached to is actually one year younger than me — 62 years old."

> McDougall's flight is the first exercise in what is expected to be a two-year process to get the e-plane certified for commercial use.

For some context Harbour Air is a scheduled floatplane airline operating primarily between Vancouver and Victoria in BC. Since there is no bridge connecting the capital Victoria to the largest city Vancouver, they offer short flights on seaplanes that connect downtown to downtown as an alternative to ferries or larger airplanes that arrive at the airports further outside of the downtown core of either city.

In this constrained context it seems like an electric airplane could work really well and provide fuel savings and a quieter ride. They also seem to have some ambition with these electric aircraft to provide other short range flights.

> MagniX CEO Roei Ganzarski said Dec. 10, 2019, will go down in history as the start of the electric aviation age, and believes the e-plane will eventually revolutionize how people travel by making short- to mid-range flights more economical than driving. "It means you can stop driving for three, five, seven hours to get to a destination because there's no other way to get there," he said. "It means you can fly in a small aircraft from a small airport to a small airport.... It's faster, cheaper and more convenient than any other method of travel, including going with a standard airline."

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#42
post #3

Off topic and stupid, but could an electric plane be outfitted with lightning rods and/or lightning rockets to attract lightning strikes in order to charge the batteries?

This is essentially impossible. Yes a single lightning strike contains roughly a similar order of magnitude of energy as an entire charged flight battery would but it is delivered in microseconds. That comes out to hundreds of terawatts of power while in comparison the new Tesla supercharger charges at an incredibly high rate of hundreds of kW. That's 1 Million times lower than lightning! There is no substance on ear…

Is it really impossible?

About a decade ago an astrophysicist friend of mine told me that you can store lightning energy into some kind of a supraconductor, the problem being that we don't know how to take the energy out.

I believe he described something similar to [Superconducting magnetic energy storage](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_ene...)

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#43
post #3

Off topic and stupid, but could an electric plane be outfitted with lightning rods and/or lightning rockets to attract lightning strikes in order to charge the batteries?

People say it's already useless on solid ground. I suppose we can forget that on moving objects.

That said I wonder if helium filled balloons with extremely capacitors could absorb some of the voltage difference in the atmosphere and act as mini batteries.

Some people already tap into atmospheric voltage near ground with drones carrying long wires.

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#44
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A modern jet engine is just a shrouded propeller that happens to be powered by a jet turbine. No, it's not. A propellor creates thrust by slicing the air and creating lift just like a wing, but in a forward direction. A jet engine's fan blades create no thrust in themselves. They provide the compression needed for combustion to occur within the engine, and thrust is created by the expelling of hot exhaust gasses.

That is a description of a turbojet - the earliest type of aero jet engines[0]. GP is referring to modern turbofans which are defined by having a bybass - i.e. air that is compressed and then expelled rearwards without passing through the main turbine body[1]. This is done to trade the high speed of the jet exhaust for a larger amount of air moving more slowly. Making the speed of the jet plume closer to the true air…

And to be more detailed, in any jet turbine, the compressor blades will create power as the energy spent compressing the air will be recovered when it's exhausted out of the tailpipe. So it's not quite correct to say they will produce no thrust.

Looking at design of turbines, a lot of air is needed above the amount for combustion to help keep the post combustion chamber turbine from melting (or just weakening to the point of failure). Some of this will be the unburnt (nitrogen, etc) components of the ingested air but a lot of design goes into moving air around components to move heat away from them.

The less air needs to be compressed for the engine then the more efficiently it will run. This is often achieved by designing one that can run hotter. This is also one of the other ideas behind having the bypass on a turbofan, reducing the amount of air that is compressed.

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A modern jet engine is just a shrouded propeller that happens to be powered by a jet turbine. An electric ducted fan would be the battery-powered equivalent.

>A modern jet engine is just a shrouded propeller that happens to be powered by a jet turbine. No, it's not. A propellor creates thrust by slicing the air and creating lift just like a wing, but in a forward direction. A jet engine's fan blades create no thrust in themselves. They provide the compression needed for combustion to occur within the engine, and thrust is created by the expelling of hot exhaust gasses.

Most of (>80%) the thrust of modern turbofan engines is directly produced by the fan, which mostly just pushed air past the engine, not into it.

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#46

You can do small aircraft like this, no problem. The trouble is you can't scale it up, due to how quickly the power and energy demands go up. This thing is 560 kW and gets a range of 86 nmi; an A320 is around 40 000 kW and has a range of 3 500 nmi, while an A380 is around 80 000 kW and has a range of 8 500 nmi. Going from this DHC-2 to the A380 requires an increase in energy storage by a factor of around 14 000x, whi…

Power (kW) determines takeoff weight (ie plane size/passenger count), energy (kWh) determines range. This article doesn't have all the info needed to say how this would scale. For instance, if the energy storage of the batteries doubled but the power stayed the same, you couldn't make the plane capacity any bigger but you could extend the range to more than double.

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#47

You can do small aircraft like this, no problem. The trouble is you can't scale it up, due to how quickly the power and energy demands go up. This thing is 560 kW and gets a range of 86 nmi; an A320 is around 40 000 kW and has a range of 3 500 nmi, while an A380 is around 80 000 kW and has a range of 8 500 nmi. Going from this DHC-2 to the A380 requires an increase in energy storage by a factor of around 14 000x, whi…

> This thing is 560 kW and gets a range of 86 nmi

Not even that. I believe an 86 nmi range is what they are hoping to achieve by 2025. Current range is a fraction of that. The technology demonstrator has a theoretical flight time of 15 minutes and no ability to carry passengers because all the room/weight is taken up by batteries.

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#49
Carbon neutral biofuel or fuel made via excess solar/wind should probably be the goal.

Fuel cells might be viable too and the regulated commercial nature of planes probably means that hydrogen's storage and pumping headaches wouldn't suffer the consumer problems.

But biofuels are probably the way to go for now.

There are probably hybrid airship designs with solar panels that could do lower cost shipping. All that extra surface area from the blimp can be covered in solar panels or those fancy solar paints.

Re: First all-electric seaplane takes flight in B.C.

#50

You can do small aircraft like this, no problem. The trouble is you can't scale it up, due to how quickly the power and energy demands go up. This thing is 560 kW and gets a range of 86 nmi; an A320 is around 40 000 kW and has a range of 3 500 nmi, while an A380 is around 80 000 kW and has a range of 8 500 nmi. Going from this DHC-2 to the A380 requires an increase in energy storage by a factor of around 14 000x, whi…

I could see a non-rechargeable electric battery (but refillable, ala jet fuel) such as aluminum-air maybe working.

The round trip efficiency would be similar to diesel (since you are re-smelting rather than recharging), but the effective energy density on the plane could actually be much better than jet fuel.

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