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Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

kong.cash

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Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#331

Post by _8j50 »

ccamrobertson wrote: post #2

Hi folks, I’m one of the contributors at Kong — https://kong.cash/ . Kong is a physical cryptocurrency that looks, feels and works like traditional cash. You can think of it as an ultra-secure, time locked cryptocurrency wallet with a fixed face value — no one can access the token except for the holder of the note after a period of several years. It consists of a secure element and NFC chips mounted on a flexible PCB…

Hi,

I love this. I have been wanting something like this for a while. Personally, I desired a coin instead of a bill. 2-3CM thick coin made with material good for radio security and longevity would be neat. A phsyical 'coin'. Any plans for something like that? Any reasoning against it?

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#332

Post by Aeolun »

iamben wrote: post #228
Jamwinner wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use almost exclusively cash and never get that response. Usually a smile as I sail out of the cashiers way faster than our abrtion of a chip+pin system customers possibly could. What part of the world are you in?

Pay with a card at a busy bar in the UK 15 years ago and everyone would sigh as the barman reached for the card terminal, did his thing, waited for you to type in your pin, etc etc. Paying with cash was far quicker. Pay with cash at a bar now and everyone will sigh as the barman counts it up, puts it in the till etc etc. Contactless is so fast, the barman will be pouring the next drinks while you're tapping the machi…

Can they even not accept cash? It’s legal tender anywhere in the UK right?

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#333

Post by Aeolun »

ixtli wrote: post #306
ccamrobertson wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've sold and are selling products to customers. That seems to constitute utility for someone as well as fit into the definition of a "business".

This is a truly unbelievable answer to the question you were asked.

You think? If someone is paying them money for the manufacturing of goods, then regardless of the value and utility of those goods, I’d say they have a business.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#334

Post by notahacker »

wesleyfsmith wrote: post #287

If someone could pull this idea off--or a similar idea around physical cash it could be a huge boon in countries like Venezuela that are primarily cash based still but the local currency is very weak.

Or they could use dollar bills, which unlike Kong, are redeemable for goods and services because hundreds of millions of people want them to pay bills, debts and taxes.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#336

Post by ace32229 »

Aeolun wrote: post #332
iamben wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay with a card at a busy bar in the UK 15 years ago and everyone would sigh as the barman reached for the card terminal, did his thing, waited for you to type in your pin, etc etc. Paying with cash was far quicker. Pay with cash at a bar now and everyone will sigh as the barman counts it up, puts it in the till etc etc. Contactless is so fast, the barman will be pouring the next drinks while you're tapping the machi…

Can they even not accept cash? It’s legal tender anywhere in the UK right?

Of course, why wouldn't they?

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#337

Post by drudu »

zelly wrote: post #171
drudu wrote: post #162

I hate crypto currency and I love this. It's a way to project all the insanely bad parts of crypto (if you hold it you own it) into the physical world. If general btc/eth transactions are a very very complex version of SWIFT this is the same for paper money. I can buy coke with my bitcoins but I can't do a cool in person coke buy with bitcoins(and/or ETH). Kong solves my problem.

> I can't do a cool in person coke buy with bitcoins Why not? Each of you can have Bitcoin wallets on your phones. I'm sure coke heads can figure out something to talk about for 10 minutes waiting for 1 confirmation.

The operative word was "cool".

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#338

Post by londons_explore »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #315
ccamrobertson wrote: post #2

Hi folks, I’m one of the contributors at Kong — https://kong.cash/ . Kong is a physical cryptocurrency that looks, feels and works like traditional cash. You can think of it as an ultra-secure, time locked cryptocurrency wallet with a fixed face value — no one can access the token except for the holder of the note after a period of several years. It consists of a secure element and NFC chips mounted on a flexible PCB…

A user accepting these "verifies" them by assuming that two properties hold if they connect over NFC or via pogo pins to the "gold elements", send a challenge over this connection, and receive in response the challenge signed with a public key associated with locked Kong tokens. 1. the relevant private key is known to only a Kong note's secure element. this is (hopefully) enforced by the secure element's, uh, securit…

Are there any solutions to the relay attack you describe?

Perhaps by having the secure element "lock" and "unlock" each time the note changes hands, so that an attacker who uses a a relay will still have his note locked in a way that makes it useless unless he gives it to the recipient to unlock?

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#339

Post by jefftk »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #315
ccamrobertson wrote: post #2

Hi folks, I’m one of the contributors at Kong — https://kong.cash/ . Kong is a physical cryptocurrency that looks, feels and works like traditional cash. You can think of it as an ultra-secure, time locked cryptocurrency wallet with a fixed face value — no one can access the token except for the holder of the note after a period of several years. It consists of a secure element and NFC chips mounted on a flexible PCB…

A user accepting these "verifies" them by assuming that two properties hold if they connect over NFC or via pogo pins to the "gold elements", send a challenge over this connection, and receive in response the challenge signed with a public key associated with locked Kong tokens. 1. the relevant private key is known to only a Kong note's secure element. this is (hopefully) enforced by the secure element's, uh, securit…

You could fix 2 by having a verifier that puts the note in a Faraday cage. While that's more work than just scanning with your phone it could still be cheap and worth it if you were receiving a lot of notes.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#340

Post by notahacker »

Aeolun wrote: post #332
iamben wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay with a card at a busy bar in the UK 15 years ago and everyone would sigh as the barman reached for the card terminal, did his thing, waited for you to type in your pin, etc etc. Paying with cash was far quicker. Pay with cash at a bar now and everyone will sigh as the barman counts it up, puts it in the till etc etc. Contactless is so fast, the barman will be pouring the next drinks while you're tapping the machi…

Can they even not accept cash? It’s legal tender anywhere in the UK right?

People are allowed to refuse cash for goods and services whenever they want for pretty much any reason other than discriminating against a protected class of people, including not wanting to handle cash as a form of payment. Amongst other things, this allows ecommerce to exist.

The legal tender laws just mean that if you offer a sufficient quantity of legal tender in settlement of debt, your debt is discharged and they can't sue you for non-payment. This ensures cash has value, and means that most shops will take most forms of cash, even if it means queueing up for counter service because the kiosks are card only

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