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A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

olafsw.de

61–70 of 125 posts

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you briefly explain (or link an existing explanation) a summary of the changes the Qt Company is asking for, to someone who's interested but not intimately familiar with the details?

It says in the article and the quote that the proposed changes are still unclear.

I understand that. I was hoping someone who's closer to the matter could characterize them in broad strokes even if details were still unclear.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#62
post #55

The behavior of the Qt company lately is a bit troubling. First, the core can be licensed under Commercial or LGPL licensing. This let's non-paying developers use the core in commercial software. This policy was established to ensure trust with the community during one of the many company transitions. For all new modules, Qt evades that requirement by licensing under Commercial or GPL. I have mixed feelings on this.…

LGPL was decided by Nokia who bought the IP from Trolltech for ~150 Mio $ and also came up for the development costs up to Qt 5.1. Digia and The Qt Company "bought" the IP for about 5 Mio $ from Nokia and now earn money with commercial licenses of a library where the most important development steps were already done before. According to the commit logs the contribution rate of Nokia was at ~80%, wheras the Qt Company is rather at ~40% and with focus on stuff they can sell. I regularly meet people who bought a licence to use the Qt framework not realizing that they could use it under LGPL. I know the wording of the commercial license. It places the licensee clearly worse than with the LGPL variant. Personally, I find the business practices of this company, which have been observed for some time, rather questionable.I had a commercial license with Trolltech, which cost me a lot of money. As soon as LGPL was available, I cancelled the contracts and avoided projects that could not be done with LGPL rather than signing such a single-edge contract with this company.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#63
post #55

The behavior of the Qt company lately is a bit troubling. First, the core can be licensed under Commercial or LGPL licensing. This let's non-paying developers use the core in commercial software. This policy was established to ensure trust with the community during one of the many company transitions. For all new modules, Qt evades that requirement by licensing under Commercial or GPL. I have mixed feelings on this.…

Its weird what people and businesses will and will not support.

Businesses will shovel loads of money into SaaS and cloud hosting without blinking, but support a programming tool? Never! Another hundred Office users and 50 more AWS VMs? No problem.

People will spend $10 on a coffee but would never spend $5 to support a project that saves them hundreds or thousands of hours of work. They'll spend $15/month to host a site, but would never pay for the software that runs it even though that took far more effort than racking up some servers.

No wonder everything is surveillanceware and mega-corp silos. We get what we pay for, or rather we don't get what we won't pay for... like independent software.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#64
post #57
post #55

The behavior of the Qt company lately is a bit troubling. First, the core can be licensed under Commercial or LGPL licensing. This let's non-paying developers use the core in commercial software. This policy was established to ensure trust with the community during one of the many company transitions. For all new modules, Qt evades that requirement by licensing under Commercial or GPL. I have mixed feelings on this.…

> commercial software I think (could be wrong) you meant to imply closed-source, as one can have commercial open-source software. I’m not a huge fan of them using GPL for their newer modules, either, like charts. It seemed a bit unnecessary other than driving those who don’t like/can’t use the GPL license into a dev subscription.

Which is quite fair, they have to live from something.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#65
post #63
post #55

The behavior of the Qt company lately is a bit troubling. First, the core can be licensed under Commercial or LGPL licensing. This let's non-paying developers use the core in commercial software. This policy was established to ensure trust with the community during one of the many company transitions. For all new modules, Qt evades that requirement by licensing under Commercial or GPL. I have mixed feelings on this.…

Its weird what people and businesses will and will not support. Businesses will shovel loads of money into SaaS and cloud hosting without blinking, but support a programming tool? Never! Another hundred Office users and 50 more AWS VMs? No problem. People will spend $10 on a coffee but would never spend $5 to support a project that saves them hundreds or thousands of hours of work. They'll spend $15/month to host a s…

Sure. In the case of Qt, it was very expensive but well worth paying for because it does a good job. The LGPL stuff is important because it provides us with an "out" if the Qt company goes crazy with prices.

Avoiding the "out" makes me not want to make use of the new modules. And the hassle of audits makes be question the cost of the inconvenience to me, the dev, of having a license.

It's tradeoffs all the way down.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#66
post #63
post #55

The behavior of the Qt company lately is a bit troubling. First, the core can be licensed under Commercial or LGPL licensing. This let's non-paying developers use the core in commercial software. This policy was established to ensure trust with the community during one of the many company transitions. For all new modules, Qt evades that requirement by licensing under Commercial or GPL. I have mixed feelings on this.…

Its weird what people and businesses will and will not support. Businesses will shovel loads of money into SaaS and cloud hosting without blinking, but support a programming tool? Never! Another hundred Office users and 50 more AWS VMs? No problem. People will spend $10 on a coffee but would never spend $5 to support a project that saves them hundreds or thousands of hours of work. They'll spend $15/month to host a s…

Exactly, that is why you can only have nice tools when working for big corps.

FOSS made it fashionable to want to be paid for work, while refusing to pay for the work of others, and in the process using clunky tools.

Naturally upstream cannot pay bills from PR and eventually moves on.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#67
post #37

Trolltech were pretty awesome, in their days. The “poison-pill BSD” setup is pretty smart; if i remember correctly , it was introduced when they started wobbling a bit from the commercial perspective, in order to keep the community calm while they went looking for buyers (which they eventually found in Nokia). It would be sad if the switch had to be triggered at a time when QT is supposed to be “back in the game” aft…

They tried and learned that most FOSS don't want to pay for their tools, so they turned their focus to those that actually care to pay and have been doing quite alright.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#69
post #33
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a fan of electron at all. But I think it points out the direction for the future of gui. There's a whole generation of new languages (rust, go, dart, D, ...) that wants to get into the gui-space and finding QT and GTK problematic. QT is known for "using every C++ feature", making it less than ideal for bindings. GTK is not very cross platform I think, and is criticized for beeing gnome-centric. Both toolkits are…

I'd like the pain-point parties (Apple, Microsoft) to just ship open-source linkable libraries of somekind in their app stores. If OSX, Windows, and the mobile stores carried a common framework developers could target it would become a defacto UI standard since you could finally develop a cross-platform app that used 'native widgets' (at least a library that might already be installed) for every given platform, and w…

They are open enough, apparently linking to OS APIs is a lost art.

Re: A Better Qt Because of Open Source and KDE

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite. Define "better" here.

If your only goal is to create a cross platform desktop client for your existing web app as fast as humanly possible, then Electron is better.

The Web app already exists then, no need for Electron.
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