Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#271

Post by saxonww » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

biolurker1 wrote: post #190

Jaxkr wrote: post #65

Have you considered how this will fare in the current regulatory environment? European countries banned Libra because they didn't want it to compete with the Euro and the U.S. showed hostility to pre-crypto complementary currencies. Have you considered licensing the tech to governments to make counterfeit-proof bills?

You mean they would treat it as illegal goods and confiscate it at border? How would they ban this

However they want?

Some people might not remember the Liberty Dollar[0] from 10-20 years ago. The depository was raided after a few years, the company issuing the currency was shut down, and the owner/proprietor was convicted of illegally minting coins. Kong couldn't be shut down the exact same way - these aren't coins - but I'd be shocked if a similar thing didn't happen were Kong to become as popular as ALD (which, come on, it won't).

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_curren...

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#272

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:21 AM UTC

Jamwinner wrote: post #204

pedalpete wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you expect to get this into the market? And what market do you expect to get this into? Cash has an inherent agreement as to locality. When I'm in Australia, I use Australian dollars, when in the US, they have US dollars. Though you may be solving this problem, I can use Kong everywhere, you need to somehow seed the market. How do you see that happening? As you state, crypto is mostly a store of value atm. The…

I use almost exclusively cash and never get that response. Usually a smile as I sail out of the cashiers way faster than our abrtion of a chip+pin system customers possibly could. What part of the world are you in?

Yesterday I bought coffee in a place that doesn't accept cash. Tapping a card is always faster than paying cash in my experience.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#273

Post by torgian » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:23 AM UTC

I’m very skeptical. While the idea is nice ( I love physical cash and use it every day ) there isn’t much control over counterfeiting, etc. granted, this is also true for Fiat, but there are more controls involved.

Make a currency exchanger that exchanges bits with a scan of your device, instantaneously, and you’ll have my attention.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#274

Post by sooheon » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:32 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #245

arcticbull wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but cash isn’t affected by water, freezing, bending, pressure, moderate temperatures above whatever the 70C limit is on these ICs, static electricity, ionizing radiation and microwaves. People don’t pass off counterfeit currency as real all the time either, that’s a false lead. Currently 0.01% of currency is fake and it’s actively sought out and removed from circulation [1]. That’s almost guaranteed way less tha…

I'm not sure what your point is. The comment I was responding to claimed that verification represented a regression in usability in relation to cash. This is not true, because cash also requires verification. I'm not claiming Kong is better in this regard, simply that it is equivalent.

Not all verification is equally costly.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#275

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:39 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #215

ccamrobertson wrote: post #2

Hi folks, I’m one of the contributors at Kong — https://kong.cash/ . Kong is a physical cryptocurrency that looks, feels and works like traditional cash. You can think of it as an ultra-secure, time locked cryptocurrency wallet with a fixed face value — no one can access the token except for the holder of the note after a period of several years. It consists of a secure element and NFC chips mounted on a flexible PCB…

This doesn't make any sense. Can only preordained organizations print the notes? Then we’re back to centralized cash. Can anyone print the notes? Then they can also print duplicates. Do we verify electronically when we transact to prevent that? Then we're back to electronic transactions. What am I missing? How is this not fatally flawed?

It's a zero coupon bearer bond, that's all. With some very elaborate anti forgery. Nothing wrong with an organization printing bonds, it's just that these aren't a debt but represent locked up economically inactive etherum.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#276

Post by elil17 » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

ccamrobertson wrote: post #206

the_pwner224 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it is an intriguing concept. But at the same time they seem to be ready to sell Kong for $$$. And they don't explain why there are three tiers of rarity to the cash - shouldn't 500 KONG == 500 KONG all the time every time? Seems like a mechanic to raise more money, just like 'rare' cosmetic items in video games.

The "tiers" are just bundle names. We could have been super dry but decided to make it more like collectable cards packs; our expectation is that most people will buy Kong since it looks cool (that's totally fine with us). Our margin on Kong is typical of other startup hardware projects; not great. We're not raking in cash from a digital token sale. We've made a physical product, we'll sell it to cover the costs of d…

Yeah see “startup” is the problem word there. That implies you have a product. You have a cool hobby project, but there’s no use case.

I’m so curious why people think (and it’s certainly not just you, I see this attitude all over) that it is possible to run a business without providing value to customers.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#277

Post by jakelazaroff » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:45 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #275

jakelazaroff wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make any sense. Can only preordained organizations print the notes? Then we’re back to centralized cash. Can anyone print the notes? Then they can also print duplicates. Do we verify electronically when we transact to prevent that? Then we're back to electronic transactions. What am I missing? How is this not fatally flawed?

It's a zero coupon bearer bond, that's all. With some very elaborate anti forgery. Nothing wrong with an organization printing bonds, it's just that these aren't a debt but represent locked up economically inactive etherum.

This might sway me if they didn't repeatedly refer to it as "cash" on their website.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#278

Post by sah2ed » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:51 AM UTC

saxonww wrote: post #271

biolurker1 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean they would treat it as illegal goods and confiscate it at border? How would they ban this

However they want? Some people might not remember the Liberty Dollar[0] from 10-20 years ago. The depository was raided after a few years, the company issuing the currency was shut down, and the owner/proprietor was convicted of illegally minting coins. Kong couldn't be shut down the exact same way - these aren't coins - but I'd be shocked if a similar thing didn't happen were Kong to become as popular as ALD (which,…

Exactly. I’m surprised that this point about the legal ramifications isn’t higher up in the thread.

Things get complicated real fast once you move from peddling virtual to physical currencies. I fail to see how the US wont use the same laws to shut them down the way they did to the liberty dollar.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#279

Post by torgian » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:52 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #191

whb07 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So kind of like how Samsung and HTC are starting to integrate hardware wallets into the phones? Couldn’t you imagine a world where this starts trending cheaper and cheaper and soon becomes a commodity ?

The difference is a crypto wallet on your Samsung phone when lost or stolen makes you bankrupt where google pay wallets shrug it off.

And has the potential of being tracked by said companies and service providers

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#280

Post by torgian » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 5:54 AM UTC

seandougall wrote: post #224

rytill wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... would that not be cooler?

Programmable means something can have bugs. I prefer my celery bug-free.

Yeah, but imagine the possibilities...

Programmable colors.

Programmable taste.

We already do this with genetically modifying food, why not do it with code?!