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Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

kong.cash

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Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#71

Post by GordonS »

3saryHg6LP2e wrote: post #60
GordonS wrote: post #54

So, I'm Scottish, and still often have problems in London (and indeed abroad!) when I hand over a Scottish bank note. Scotland and England are of course both part of the UK, and while, yes, technically Scottish bank notes are not legal tender, they have been defacto legal tender since forever. How do you plan to tackle this mentality, where there is such hostility to anything in the slightest bit unusual?

I mean they are not "not technically" legal tender, they are not legal tender and that is why you have problems with them being accepted (because they don't have to be!)

Given Scottish notes are defacto legal tender, and have been since forever, yes, I do think it's fair to call it a technicality - there literally isn't a bank in the whole of the UK that would decline Scottish notes.

Also, while I do sometimes have problems with them abroad too, it's 50/50 - I've had them accepted in all sorts of places, including India, Nepal and China

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#72

Post by zelly »

IMO this breaks the entire security model of cryptocurrency. If these bills are intended to be spent hand-to-hand in meatspace without cryptographic validation on a computer, then it is no longer a cryptocurrency. It is another paper currency like the U.S. Treasury's.

The innovation of Bitcoin was money as a purely digital artifact that cannot be double spent. As a merchant accepting Kong bucks, I have no idea how many duplicates of a particular Kong note there could be out there. I could find myself in a race between many other people to move the Ether out of that private key. To rely on embedded chips and watermarks to prevent counterfeiting and double-spending seems like a huge step backward, like you're trying to make a better $100 Benjamin instead of a better cryptocurrency.

I get the idea of quick, zero-fee transactions. But there needs to be some finality or pseudo-finality. The Lightning Network uses a similar model as yours, but it has collateral. Analogously, in the way Lightning solved this problem, the merchant has 5 actual Ether on file for a customer that the customer sacrifices if they ever double spend a Kong buck at the store.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#73

Post by GordonS »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #68
GordonS wrote: post #54

So, I'm Scottish, and still often have problems in London (and indeed abroad!) when I hand over a Scottish bank note. Scotland and England are of course both part of the UK, and while, yes, technically Scottish bank notes are not legal tender, they have been defacto legal tender since forever. How do you plan to tackle this mentality, where there is such hostility to anything in the slightest bit unusual?

Embrace it? Less cheekily, I think Kong like instruments when properly adapted could capture the best parts of local currencies (like the Bristol Pound), the messy parts of multi-governmental currencies (like the Scottish Pound), and the nice bits of computer validation. In your example specifically, the Royal Bank of Scotland can still mint Scottish Pounds but back them on chain by UK pounds. I'm of course hand-waiv…

Ach, while I might agree with some of your sentiment, I can't help but feel it's unrealistic; yet I accept that attitude is part of the problem.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#74

Post by 3saryHg6LP2e »

GordonS wrote: post #71
3saryHg6LP2e wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they are not "not technically" legal tender, they are not legal tender and that is why you have problems with them being accepted (because they don't have to be!)

Given Scottish notes are defacto legal tender, and have been since forever, yes, I do think it's fair to call it a technicality - there literally isn't a bank in the whole of the UK that would decline Scottish notes. Also, while I do sometimes have problems with them abroad too, it's 50/50 - I've had them accepted in all sorts of places, including India, Nepal and China

There is no such thing as "defacto" legal tender. By definition only legal tender must be accepted as a form of payment - you can choose to accept something else but you don't have to.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#75

Post by bransonf »

Serious question: Who is going to accept Kong as a valid form of payment? What incentive is there to accept Kong and what guarantees its value?

One of the biggest issues plaguing cryptocurrency as a transactional currency is the volatility of decentralized assets.

What problem is Kong fixing? “We made a physical crypto asset” isn’t connecting the dots for me.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#76

Post by ccamrobertson »

spir wrote: post #50

Have you guys considered decoupling your physical cash technology from the underlying token? Physical DAI or ETH would be most excellent.

Yes; DAI is a bit of an odd one since it's largely just a more expensive dollar bill, but there definitely some cases where this could be interesting. ETH would easily work too.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#78

Post by GordonS »

3saryHg6LP2e wrote: post #74
GordonS wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given Scottish notes are defacto legal tender, and have been since forever, yes, I do think it's fair to call it a technicality - there literally isn't a bank in the whole of the UK that would decline Scottish notes. Also, while I do sometimes have problems with them abroad too, it's 50/50 - I've had them accepted in all sorts of places, including India, Nepal and China

There is no such thing as "defacto" legal tender. By definition only legal tender must be accepted as a form of payment - you can choose to accept something else but you don't have to.

Sorry, but (at best) this is pure pedantry.

Literally every bank in the UK will accept Scottish bank notes - if that's not a defacto legal tender, I don't know what is.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#79

Post by paulgerhardt »

zelly wrote: post #72

IMO this breaks the entire security model of cryptocurrency. If these bills are intended to be spent hand-to-hand in meatspace without cryptographic validation on a computer, then it is no longer a cryptocurrency. It is another paper currency like the U.S. Treasury's. The innovation of Bitcoin was money as a purely digital artifact that cannot be double spent. As a merchant accepting Kong bucks, I have no idea how ma…

The bills are intended to be spent hand-to-hand in meatspace with cryptographic validation. See section 2.1 [1]

The innovation of Bitcoin was decentralized electronic peer-to-peer cash. Kong does not remove any of those elements and makes the overhead of the peer-to-peer bit easier.

Physical cash is still the dominant form of payment. The advancement here is figuring out how to issue physical cash without needing a central entity.

I like Bitcoin but it is anti-privacy by specification. For small transactions I prefer cash. I would like the best of both.

[1] https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmRNRCocj4PwKMXrd1jeUGw7ASQSuEk7BDJu5Ks...

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#80

Post by alasdair_ »

undersuit wrote: post #46
mNovak wrote: post #39

So in theoretical use, is everyone expected to validate authenticity of each note exchanged? That seems painful for small transactions, but without it you lose absolutely all the security benefits of crypto, right? (e.g. vulnerable to good old fashioned counterfeiting)

Just do it like we do it in the US, $50s and $100s get checked consistently for counterfeits, $20s sometimes, $1s, $5s, and $10s never, and $2s are automatically assumed to be fake.

>$2s are automatically assumed to be fake

Steve Wozniak used to keep uncut sheets of $2 bills that he perforated and would tear off to give tips to people. He has a great story about secret service agents detaining him and accepting his fake ID ("Laser Safety Officer" - it showed him with an eyepatch on) and generally having no idea $2 existed.

https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v18n36a40.html

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