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Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 102 posts

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#61
post #7

So do retailers like paying the fees for other cards, or is the headline just apple bait?

Honestly the headline feels like bait. Seems like it explicitly uses the apple card since that card is new and trendy.

Time to check out the article and find out if you were right!

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#62

I'm incredibly naive but I don't understand why card networks would ever WANT to raise their percentage rates... Hear me out: - It is perfect rent collecting: minimal costs, benefits hugely from scale, high barrier for competitor entry. You're an "invisible" profit center, if done right. - It is percentage of transaction: So increases naturally with inflation and your client's success. Loses little on your client's f…

Taking in 6% and returning 7% rewards doesn't seem profitable, even in volume.

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#63
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately the problem is with the banks/issuers who refuse to support and require more secure solutions like chip cards, instead of clinging on to the hopelessly outdated standard of authenticating payments with knowledge of a number printed on a card.

Chip cards aren't without their problems, also. I've yet to have one last more than 9-10 months before the chip stops working reliably.

Same. I've even had a few chips fall right of of the cards.

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#64
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used contactless and Chip n Pin in remote Botswana 2 years ago, and this summer in America I was still repeatedly asked to sign for stuff. The future. It's not in America.

How many stores are in Botswana vs how many are in America? How many in America were taking credit card 15 years ago vs Botswana? And those 15 year old machines that still work, the CC companies wanted the retailers to pay them to replace the machines for chip and pin and got push back. There's a reason why you used chip and pin in BFE, and not at the Chinese restaurant down the street.

In Australia, card processing terminals are leased from the bank, not owned, presumably for this reason. Banks can force an upgrade.

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#65

I'm incredibly naive but I don't understand why card networks would ever WANT to raise their percentage rates... Hear me out: - It is perfect rent collecting: minimal costs, benefits hugely from scale, high barrier for competitor entry. You're an "invisible" profit center, if done right. - It is percentage of transaction: So increases naturally with inflation and your client's success. Loses little on your client's f…

Taking in 6% and returning 7% rewards doesn't seem profitable, even in volume.

If it attracts enough people who'll carry an interest-bearing balance, the math works out fine. Many of the higher-end rewards cards have annual fees, too - Chase's Sapphire Reserve card is $450/year. Amex's Platinum is $550.

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#66
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no opinions about DHH in general, but he's just wrong here. He tweets: > Hilarious how much mansplaining is flowing in this thread. Every single poster questioning my wife’s credit score, a man. Every single defense of Apple blaming GS, a man. Almost like men are over represented in the defense/justification of discrimination that doesn’t affect them? which immediately costs him all credibility in this specifi…

A 2013 federal law allows one to include any income to which they have a reasonable expectation of access including income from spouse, partner or other member of household. I seem to recall that he mentioned his wife doesn't work so she stated her income at $0 instead of the household income.

Source for this?

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#67

I'm incredibly naive but I don't understand why card networks would ever WANT to raise their percentage rates... Hear me out: - It is perfect rent collecting: minimal costs, benefits hugely from scale, high barrier for competitor entry. You're an "invisible" profit center, if done right. - It is percentage of transaction: So increases naturally with inflation and your client's success. Loses little on your client's f…

Sound reasoning but then you’re thinking in the long term interest of the company. Visa went public so the individuals who jacked up the prices will probably make a big bonus on their quarter numbers and be gone, rich, or promoted before the backlash hits them.

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#68
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip cards aren't without their problems, also. I've yet to have one last more than 9-10 months before the chip stops working reliably.

I've been running into that a lot... I'm replacing my card once a year because the chip stops working. It's one of the most embarrassing things when your card is declined repeatedly and there are people in line behind you. Or worse you're on a date and your date thinks you're overdrafted.

At least around here most terminals will allow you to swipe after 3 chip failures, but it's still a pain.

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#69
post #12

So do retailers like paying the fees for other cards, or is the headline just apple bait?

The article states that the fees are higher because it is designated an "elite" card. American Express cards also have a higher fee than the standard Visa or Mastercard and plenty of retailers complain about that or refuse to accept Amex.

> American Express cards also have a higher fee than the standard Visa or Mastercard and plenty of retailers complain about that or refuse to accept Amex.

American Express isn't Visa or Mastercard, they are all on different payment network. I have no issue with them having different fees because they are different.

The Apple Card is a Mastercard. Does Mastercard have different fees based on the type of card? I would certainly hate Mastercard more if that was the case.

Re: Retailers Don’t Like Paying the Fees for Apple Card

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many stores are in Botswana vs how many are in America? How many in America were taking credit card 15 years ago vs Botswana? And those 15 year old machines that still work, the CC companies wanted the retailers to pay them to replace the machines for chip and pin and got push back. There's a reason why you used chip and pin in BFE, and not at the Chinese restaurant down the street.

In Australia, card processing terminals are leased from the bank, not owned, presumably for this reason. Banks can force an upgrade.

In America, retailers wanted the freedom of owning their terminals. This was rational, given near-usurious fees from credit card companies in the past. However, it means that now, retailers must finance their own upgrades, and so we all suffer.
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