Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Child Care Is So Expensive

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 522 posts

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#451

Post by deogeo »

silveroriole wrote: post #444
jdbernard wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a dismissive comment and misses the main point. The main point is that these are presumably upper-middle class families. You would expect that with their higher-than-average incomes they would have greater amounts of discretionary income that they would be spending and that their expenses would be spread out across more of the economy, supporting many other businesses and services. Instead the high salar…

I don’t care about that. My point is that when I hear about someone who can only afford living, I think they mean they have to choose whether they can afford heating this month, or whether they can afford proper meals, or new school clothes for their kids. Not whether they can afford to go to fucking Disneyland multiple times a year. This commenter is feeling very sorry for themselves over a standard of living that,…

The topic was where does the increased dual-income money go. The poster provided very strong (anecdotal) evidence that it's captured by housing.

And as a non-American, from an ex-Communist state, where salaries are still a fraction of those in the US, that standard of living sounds anything but affluent. Here, families with two upper-middle-class incomes and 1-3 children are more likely to own multiple houses, than barely be keeping up with their mortgage. It's just another story for the growing pile of reasons to never move to the US. Being in the top 5-10% of earners and in debt just from housing is not normal.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#452

Post by etripe »

briandear wrote: post #303
unicornporn wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't have to be this way. No it doesn't. Rates for Stockholm, Sweden (PDF): https://forskola.stockholm/globalassets/forskola-och-skola/f... In short: FULL-TIME RATES Full-time rates apply to children in the ages of 1-3, who are in childcare for more than 30 hours a week. Child 1: 3% of household income up to maximum a fee of 1425 kr/month (roughly 149 USD) Child 2: 2% of household income up to maximum a fee o…

Sweden has a top marginal tax rate of 70% that kicks in at around $98,000. That $149 per month is deceptive when you are paying very high tax rates.

> Sweden has a top marginal tax rate of 70% that kicks in at around $98,000.

According to wikipedia (0), the top rate is 60% and kicks in at $70,800. What's your source?

> That $149 per month is deceptive when you are paying very high tax rates.

According to the OECD (1), the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is $31,287 a year, which comes down to $2607 per month, of which $149 is 5.7%.

According to the same OECD, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita in the US is $45,284 a year. According to the OP's article, the cost of childcare is $16,000, or roughly 35.3%.

Would you argue that's deceptively high when you are paying little taxes? I wouldn't. If having children is to be considered a basic human right, why not equally consider universal the ability to raise them regardless of income bracket?

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden 1: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/sweden/

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#453

Post by speleding »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #312
tristanstcyr wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it's a failure, it's that being taken out of the workforce for many years is damaging to careers. It's more than a matter of perception. Public school starts when kids are 5. If you have several kids, it could then take someone out of the workforce for a decade. While it's not impossible to recover from that, it's extremely difficult, especially at a point where you're past your prime years such as your…

>While it's not impossible to recover from that, it's extremely difficult On the other hand, it's impossible for your children to get back the time they could have spent in their most formative and vulnerable years around people that love them, rather than minimum wage daycare workers.

> it's impossible for your children to get back the time they could have spent in their most formative and vulnerable years around people that love them, rather than minimum wage daycare workers

Professionally trained, well rested, day care professionals probably do that job just as well as me, or better. Also, there are 168 hours in a week and the kids still spend a large part of that with their parents.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#454

Post by werdnapk »

fortran77 wrote: post #417
pfortuny wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

Also why can't men take care of the children and women work? If childcare is so expensive, maybe in two-parent households, one parent's job should be to raise the children while the other works.

This is what I do. I take the parental leave (I can take 7-9 months I believe) and my wife goes back to work (she makes more than I do, so it makes sense).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#455

Post by werdnapk »

glofish wrote: post #80
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

The article specifically calls out the Quebec experiment as having a negative impact on the children: > So, did the Quebec child-care experiment “work”? Yes, for parents and public financing. Perhaps not for the kids.

I really don't understand some of these opinions.

My kids all started daycare quite young (less than a year old) and they LOVE it. I suppose it entirely depends on the daycare just as it can depend on the school your child attends when they're older.

The daycare my kids go to have plenty of activities... they do crafts, draw, have plenty of books and toys, play outside, "sports" and dance classes. There's no way I'd have the time or attention span to be able to do all of that with my kids unfortunately. Some parents can do it, but I think most parents need a break more often than not.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#456

Post by pnutjam »

umvi wrote: post #179

Unpopular opinion - but I think farming out the majority of the raising of children to daycares is a bad idea in the long term. Obviously some times you don't have a choice, but I think stay-at-home moms (or dads) are extremely valuable for the development of the child and potentially worth more than any monetary gains to be had from dual-income. Yeah, you might not be able to afford a nice house or car as quickly, b…

If America embraced a proper work and life balance, we could have both. Not all Mom's and Dad's want to stay home, and afew hours of quality daycare could be beneficial to most kids.

I say this as a parent with 6 kids and a wife who has cared for all of them.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#457

Post by pnutjam »

paulcole wrote: post #302
Digory wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person who gets "Uber, but for Parenting, not cars" right will make a fortune. The solutions in the article are "Medicaid, but for Parents, not doctors." What we need is "a culture with jobs that will pay enough to support two adults and their children, so that care of children, family, and the community is an expected part of every adult relationship."

I think this is the killer untapped market for Uber. Just book a really long Uber ride and let your kid spend 8 hours in the car while you’re working. Driver can still pick up other passengers and your kid can interact with them for enrichment. Doesn’t have to be a complete waste of time. When the kid is old enough, give them a raspberry pi and let them learn to code or something while they’re riding around. Driver c…

I hope this is satire.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#458

Post by pnutjam »

gwbas1c wrote: post #273
ben7799 wrote: post #194

I live in Massachusetts.. mentioned in the article as averaging $16k. I have a child who stopped going to private day care a year and a half ago. For us it was more like $20-24k/yr for child care. There were centers near one of my workplaces that were more like $35-40k/yr/child. Anything near the trendy high tech office spaces in Boston/Cambridge is going to be in that > $30k/yr/child range. I think there are nice pr…

I live in MA, and I've used in-home daycare. My current provider is a husband and wife team, and they aren't getting rich. (They charge $50 / day.) Previously, I used an in-home provider where she ran a smaller in-home daycare, and her husband had an engineering job. They (household) had more money than my wife and I did. Ironically, even though she charged $55 a day, because she provided all food, it was "cheaper" d…

I'm currently in Indiana (ugh), but had my oldest daughter in Michigan. Michigan in 2000, seemed to have some subsidies that essentially set the price for daycare. I believe in home was $45 / day. Indiana has no such subsidies and costs can vary hugely. I've seen anywhere from $25 /day to $70 /day.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#459

Post by pnutjam »

scruple wrote: post #399
silveroriole wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a house and multiple cars but you can’t go to Disneyland as often as you’d like? Such hardship... barely living...

> You have a house I have a mortgage, insurance, and taxes. > multiple cars I'm really tearing up the road in my 2004 Scion (that I got used in 2010) and my 2014 Honda. I also have exorbitant childcare costs that are leading my wife and I to question the value of my wife or I continuing to work and live in this place. I'm not rich. I don't live in Ladera Ranch. I don't own a Tesla and a Range Rover. But fuck me for t…

His point stands. The average family income in America less then $64k. I'm going to assume you make more then that, probably alot. Yes, we know you have a high cost of living.

Plenty of people would love to live in CA, and make enough to stay there. I'm also going to bet you are fully funding your retirement, it's a lower percentage of your income to max out your 401k.

I understand you don't feel rich, but be grateful for what you have and enjoy life. If your not having sleep for dinner or worrying about the electricity being turned off; you have it good.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#460

Post by pnutjam »

deogeo wrote: post #451
silveroriole wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t care about that. My point is that when I hear about someone who can only afford living, I think they mean they have to choose whether they can afford heating this month, or whether they can afford proper meals, or new school clothes for their kids. Not whether they can afford to go to fucking Disneyland multiple times a year. This commenter is feeling very sorry for themselves over a standard of living that,…

The topic was where does the increased dual-income money go. The poster provided very strong (anecdotal) evidence that it's captured by housing. And as a non-American, from an ex-Communist state, where salaries are still a fraction of those in the US, that standard of living sounds anything but affluent. Here, families with two upper-middle-class incomes and 1-3 children are more likely to own multiple houses , than…

In the Midwest, anecdotally, I live in an affluent area and see families all the time that hit Disney annually.

Boggles my mind...

Post reply on HN