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Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

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Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#231

Post by panpanna »

snowwrestler wrote: post #150

> Only about 9% of Safari users on an iPhone allow outside companies to track where they go on the web > In comparison, 79% of people who use Google’s Chrome browser allow advertisers to track their browsing habits on mobile devices through cookies. Something to keep in mind the next time you see someone from Google complaining about how Apple won’t allow Google Chrome to run natively on the iPhone.

I hate tracking like everyone else but what you wrote is just pure FUD.

Apple forces Firefox/chrome to use their crippled engine but that has nothing to do with the parts that do the tracking.

For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms. And don't forgot the privacy enhancements Samsung added to their browser years ago.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#232

Post by oliwarner »

faizanbhat wrote: post #151

As someone who worked in ad tech for half a decade, I fail to understand the fuss about cookie based targeting. We're speaking of databases mapping data to random numbers stored in a file that can easily be deleted. The real issue is ad targeting by a handful of large companies that have personally identifiable information. It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cook…

> It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cookie based ad targeting right

Tell that to the likes of Amazon and Ebay. Their cookie-based advertising is extremely effective. They not only get to advertise things at you that they already know you like, they also learn about other things you like by knowing what websites and content you're viewing.

Why are we worried about this? Because megacorps learning everything about us isn't desirable. It only serves to intensify the advantage they have over individual sellers, and in doing so, lessening competition over many layers of business (all the way from manufacture to delivery).

I'll agree these things apply much less at smaller scale, but that's also why this is so important. Handing the biggest marketing advantage to the biggest players isn't good for anybody but them.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#233

Post by LoSboccacc »

oliwarner wrote: post #232
faizanbhat wrote: post #151

As someone who worked in ad tech for half a decade, I fail to understand the fuss about cookie based targeting. We're speaking of databases mapping data to random numbers stored in a file that can easily be deleted. The real issue is ad targeting by a handful of large companies that have personally identifiable information. It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cook…

> It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cookie based ad targeting right Tell that to the likes of Amazon and Ebay. Their cookie-based advertising is extremely effective. They not only get to advertise things at you that they already know you like, they also learn about other things you like by knowing what websites and content you're viewing. Why are we worried abou…

> they also learn about other things you like

if they do that it's very, very subtle. I get mostly product that I bought, with a handful of product that I saw recently, and zero original suggestions, even if I'm open to impulse buy, I am driven by new impulses, showing me something I haven't bought once is not going to tip me over as that decision was already rationalized.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#234

Post by jvzr »

hyperbovine wrote: post #131
chrisseaton wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple isn't doing this out of altruism Of course not - who said they were?

Agree -- total red herring. And I'm much happier that Apple has a financial incentive to keep this up. "Corporate altruism" has a tendency to go poof! the instant it conflicts with the bottom line.

One can make the argument that Google's "do no evil" was pure altruism. And indeed, it did go poof! the instant it conflicted with their bottom line. Astute comment, parent.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#235

Post by pferde »

rimliu wrote: post #227
api wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The closed/open/free/freedom paradox of Apple is something people should be thinking more about: They are in many ways the most closed of all the big tech companies. Their flagship platform (in revenue terms), iOS, is the most closed general purpose computing platform in history. Overall it's second only to things like game consoles for being locked down to everyone including the owner. They are also the platform and…

> iOS, is the most closed general purpose computing platform > in history. Overall it's second only to things like game > consoles for being locked down to everyone including the > owner. So, overall it is not "the most closed".

Yes it is. Game consoles aren't general purpose computing platforms.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#236

Post by rimliu »

pferde wrote: post #235
rimliu wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iOS, is the most closed general purpose computing platform > in history. Overall it's second only to things like game > consoles for being locked down to everyone including the > owner. So, overall it is not "the most closed".

Yes it is. Game consoles aren't general purpose computing platforms.

And what makes phones "general purpose" computing platforms?

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#237

Post by dbuder »

faizanbhat wrote: post #151

As someone who worked in ad tech for half a decade, I fail to understand the fuss about cookie based targeting. We're speaking of databases mapping data to random numbers stored in a file that can easily be deleted. The real issue is ad targeting by a handful of large companies that have personally identifiable information. It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cook…

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. I don't want to be glib but I don't want to write paragraphs and your first line is indistinguishable from flamebait. The Elle example is relevant to a tiny sliver of the internet and how much money people make from ads isn't relevant to whether the practice should be condone/accepted. That it is not very effective is an argument against it, as we suffer for little gain, but since it is an externality to decision maker it is the defacto choice.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#238

Post by pferde »

quotemstr wrote: post #174

People are going to unpleasantly surprised by the way the internet changes after tracking for personalized advertising stops working. Already, I see tons of complains about paywalled news sites, micropayments everywhere, and the death of the "old internet". Just imagine how much worse it'll be when only two or three giant social media companies can make money with advertising (since they can rely on first-party data)…

I've yet to see any harm from that lion hiding in tall grass over there, stop panicking and get back to grazing.

I have yet to see any harm from eating badly and not excercising for this young person, stop panicking and let them enjoy their double-upsized extra-bacon Monsterbuger.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#239

Post by gwd »

AznHisoka wrote: post #158
faizanbhat wrote: post #151

As someone who worked in ad tech for half a decade, I fail to understand the fuss about cookie based targeting. We're speaking of databases mapping data to random numbers stored in a file that can easily be deleted. The real issue is ad targeting by a handful of large companies that have personally identifiable information. It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cook…

What if I want to target women who recently bought Chanel perfume? How would I go about doing that unless I do cookie targeting?

Let's translate this to brick-and-mortar:

> What if I want to target women who recently bought Chanel perfume? How would I go about doing that unless I do video surveillance and face-recognition targeting?

Suppose a woman walked into a dress shop, and the clerk said, "We find that our $LINE line of dresses over there works really well with the Chanel perfume you just bought."

Do I have to explain why 1) people think it's creepy, and 2) why people think you don't have a right to do that?

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#240

Post by belorn »

faizanbhat wrote: post #151

As someone who worked in ad tech for half a decade, I fail to understand the fuss about cookie based targeting. We're speaking of databases mapping data to random numbers stored in a file that can easily be deleted. The real issue is ad targeting by a handful of large companies that have personally identifiable information. It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cook…

Cookie based targeting is relative easy to remove. It is an early and easy vulnerability that can be quickly addressed before the big ones that takes more engineering and fundamental changes.

Contextual targeting is a bigg problem, and the fix will require a fundamental change. It is almost impossible to use technology to prevent contextual targeting in areas like email service and social media as long as the data is in clear text and available to the server. The current best bet is to use laws like GDPR but it is slow and not something a browser can dictate with a software update.

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