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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#311

Post by [deleted] »

unicornporn wrote: post #236
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

> It doesn't have to be this way. No it doesn't. Rates for Stockholm, Sweden (PDF): https://forskola.stockholm/globalassets/forskola-och-skola/f... In short: FULL-TIME RATES Full-time rates apply to children in the ages of 1-3, who are in childcare for more than 30 hours a week. Child 1: 3% of household income up to maximum a fee of 1425 kr/month (roughly 149 USD) Child 2: 2% of household income up to maximum a fee o…

[deleted]

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#312

Post by HBKXNCUO »

tristanstcyr wrote: post #286
tharne wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. We shouldn't be creating perverse incentives. Subsidizing a low-wage job is a net loss for everyone. For taxpayers, it's just more money out of their pocket and for the parents, you're being encouraged to leave your children with strangers so you can go and work a job that doesn't pay enough to cover the cost of paying those strangers. We need to get past the ridiculous idea that staying home with one's childre…

It's not that it's a failure, it's that being taken out of the workforce for many years is damaging to careers. It's more than a matter of perception. Public school starts when kids are 5. If you have several kids, it could then take someone out of the workforce for a decade. While it's not impossible to recover from that, it's extremely difficult, especially at a point where you're past your prime years such as your…

>While it's not impossible to recover from that, it's extremely difficult

On the other hand, it's impossible for your children to get back the time they could have spent in their most formative and vulnerable years around people that love them, rather than minimum wage daycare workers.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#313

Post by neap24 »

abbadadda wrote: post #243

A lot of really good discussion in this article. I just wanted to add a couple of things: It is a true blessing if a mother or father can stay at home to raise their children. However, over time being a stay at home parent is incredibly isolating. Men are suseptible to depression, but women especially so post-partum. Also, many parents do eventually want to work either part time or full time. The longer one stays out…

It really is much more isolating today than it would have been years ago. Back when it was the norm for a parent (usually mother) to stay home with the kids, so did every other mother on the block. My wife stays home with our kids and, within the neighborhood, she is pretty much limited to hanging out with retirees. Fortunately, she's found that there is actually quite a large number of other stay-at-home mothers/fathers if you expand your search radius beyond the neighborhood. As such, she schedules meetups, play dates, and homeschool co-ops at least two days a week. It's possible to not be lonely and depressed, but as with anything takes some effort and creativity.

I disagree that the benefits of subsidized childcare would be overwhelmingly positive. They would be positive only for those who wish to work. For those who wish to stay home (and I believe the number is higher than most people estimate), it makes it an even more expensive opportunity cost and adds even more cultural pressure to conform. And, when it comes to raising kids, I think diversity of upbringing, rather than conformity is the real answer.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#314

Post by dragonwriter »

tharne wrote: post #209
klipt wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is subsidized daycare necessary in these cases though? In America if daycare costs X and you earn Y much greater than X, then obviously you'll make more money going to work and sending your kid to daycare than being a stay at home parent. The people who choose to stay at home often either have multiple kids (higher X) or earn little enough (lower Y) that it's not an economic advantage for them to work. But those…

100%. We shouldn't be creating perverse incentives. Subsidizing a low-wage job is a net loss for everyone. For taxpayers, it's just more money out of their pocket and for the parents, you're being encouraged to leave your children with strangers so you can go and work a job that doesn't pay enough to cover the cost of paying those strangers. We need to get past the ridiculous idea that staying home with one's childre…

> Subsidizing a low-wage job is a net loss for everyone.

Subsidizing a dead-end low-wage job is a net loss for everyone.

But low-wage jobs are often an important part of the route to other jobs for those entering or re-entering (even with previous higher-wage work) the workforce.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#315

Post by empath75 »

briandear wrote: post #303
unicornporn wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't have to be this way. No it doesn't. Rates for Stockholm, Sweden (PDF): https://forskola.stockholm/globalassets/forskola-och-skola/f... In short: FULL-TIME RATES Full-time rates apply to children in the ages of 1-3, who are in childcare for more than 30 hours a week. Child 1: 3% of household income up to maximum a fee of 1425 kr/month (roughly 149 USD) Child 2: 2% of household income up to maximum a fee o…

Sweden has a top marginal tax rate of 70% that kicks in at around $98,000. That $149 per month is deceptive when you are paying very high tax rates.

The people benefiting from it aren’t paying those taxes. But obviously taxes pay for government programs.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#316

Post by empath75 »

pfortuny wrote: post #57
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

Maybe we should pay parents to stay home and watch their kids instead of subsidizing day care.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#317

Post by finder83 »

Dove wrote: post #296
abbadadda wrote: post #243

A lot of really good discussion in this article. I just wanted to add a couple of things: It is a true blessing if a mother or father can stay at home to raise their children. However, over time being a stay at home parent is incredibly isolating. Men are suseptible to depression, but women especially so post-partum. Also, many parents do eventually want to work either part time or full time. The longer one stays out…

I am convinced the isolated stay at home parent model is not normal human behavior, but a pathology of our particular society which represents an unreasonable expectation derived from an excessive commitment to individualism and independence. It is not psychologically reasonable to expect one person to care for children all day every day. It is not historically or broadly culturally normal. It is not healthy for eith…

I believe it to actually be a result of industrialization, and I think that the old "model" could actually be more healthy for children (barring advances in society, medicine, etc).

Industrialization centralized jobs to factories, offices, etc. Previous to that, most operated their business as an attachment of their home, whether operating in trades or in aggriculture. So the children, the family, etc, were all together all of the time.

Our family actually works that way as I have a job as a remote developer and my wife is a stay at home mom. It's a great balance as I get to see my kids all day, and my wife is able to get breaks.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#318

Post by User23 »

jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

> the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home.

Getting around 50-80k of untaxed labor value for the household is an excellent reason for any family that can manage to have one parent do the childcare job. It’s not so much an affordability issue as it is a cash flow management issue.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#319

Post by dragonwriter »

empath75 wrote: post #316
pfortuny wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

Maybe we should pay parents to stay home and watch their kids instead of subsidizing day care.

Or we could just subsidize parents and let them choose how best to use the subsidy to provide for their kids.
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