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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#151

Post by xamuel »

jperras wrote: post #86
jawns wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about the other side of the coin: Parents who would like to stay at home and provide care to their own children, but who feel as if they cannot because of financial constraints. Does this program do anything to help them?

That's actually one of the not-so-great facets of this program. It demands a minimum of 80% participation, meaning that if you wanted to stay at home to take care of your children but use subsidized daycare 1-2 days a week to give yourself a break, it's currently not possible. If a child is absent for more than 20% of the "regular" schedule, then the daycare loses that subsidy spot due to it being under-utilized. The…

It's as if they read in "Brave New World" about the abolition of the family unit and they took that as an instruction guide.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#152

Post by UncleMeat »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #2

Women's introduction to the workforce was the right thing to happen but it fundamentally hurt labor and the "middle class". You can't double the supply without changing anything in the system and inflationary effects of dual income are ridiculous.

Why don't people say this about population growth? The US population is 2x what it was in 1950. Yet nobody says that this depresses wages causes problems. Would we have a stronger middle class if we Thanosed the population? That doesn't seem right.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#153

Post by organsnyder »

vturner wrote: post #21

This may be somewhat off-topic, but I'm often surprised that leftist policies like the article advocates are often proposed at a national level? Why is this? Why not propose a state-sponsored child-care system in a leftist state - California, Washington, Massachusetts, etc. I'm not trying to start a war here, simply genuinely interested why people on the left push national social programs versus propose them in very…

Many states (perhaps all?) must have a balanced budget every year. This means that these programs also need to have financing attached to them—so your free childcare plan either includes a new/higher tax, and/or cuts to other programs. Makes it a much harder sell.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#154

Post by jstanley »

jperras wrote: post #126
F_J_H wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"pays for itself...via increased income taxes"? It's a "nit pick" for sure, but in my understanding, something that "pays for itself" is not dependent on government subsidies. Quebec has some of the highest income taxes in the country - you pay for such services one way or another. Plus, according to the linked article, there is not enough space in the subsidized program to meet demand, so there are private options a…

> It's a "nit pick" for sure, but in my understanding, something that "pays for itself" is not dependent on government subsidies. Quebec has some of the highest income taxes in the country - you pay for such services one way or another. The subsidies that are required are offset by the increased labour force participation that occurs as a direct result of said subsidies. Conversely, if the subsidies disappeared, then…

> do I remain in the workforce and pay $1-2k/month for childcare, or do I quit my job and raise my child/children?

That the program "pays for itself" in increased taxes implies that the additional tax burden is at least the $1-2k/month required to pay for the childcare.

So if you just cancelled the childcare and reduced the taxes you'd end up at the same place on average, except you wouldn't have non-parents subsidising childcare for parents.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#155

Post by shantly »

josinalvo wrote: post #109
jedberg wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it this way. Imagine if when you went to work, you only got to do the "fun stuff" for a hour a day, and the rest of the day you just filled out paperwork and moved things back and forth in a predetermined pattern. And work lasted from the time you woke up to the time you slept. Being a parent is the greatest joy I've ever known, but the joyful parts are the punctuation on the mind-numbing toil. That toil is…

Can you be more specific? What is the nature of this toil?

I'd say every single thing one does in a day is 2-10x as difficult and 2-10x as time-consuming (usually some amount of both, but the two don't always scale in propotion) when youngish kids are involved. Things that might be quick & mindless become slow and mentally taxing, that sort of thing. Of course making mistakes in raising kids, or simply getting unlucky and having kids who are sick a lot or whatever, makes things even worse—in the best case everything's still much harder and takes longer.

And each extra kid bumps up the difficulty & time factors to some degree.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#156

Post by yters »

If child care is so expensive, wouldn't the income loss of one parent staying at home be irrelevant? Plus, the parent could find some simple side gigs that fit into at home childcare, or even do paid childcare themselves.

I think the real problem is people don't like taking care of kids, and would rather have a stranger do the job. Understandable since kids are noisy, disobedient, stinky little things, but we were all that at some point (probably still are) and someone took care of us.

Then there are all the single parent families, but why are there so many single parent families? Again, I think it is because people aren't willing to put up with each other's imperfections. Yes, sometimes there is real abuse going on that means staying together is actual a danger to life. But, is that the majority of cases? I am doubtful.

So, the real reason child care is so expensive is because we aren't willing to suck up and stick out with the imperfections of other human beings without a paycheck.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#157

Post by organsnyder »

UncleMeat wrote: post #152
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #2

Women's introduction to the workforce was the right thing to happen but it fundamentally hurt labor and the "middle class". You can't double the supply without changing anything in the system and inflationary effects of dual income are ridiculous.

Why don't people say this about population growth? The US population is 2x what it was in 1950. Yet nobody says that this depresses wages causes problems. Would we have a stronger middle class if we Thanosed the population? That doesn't seem right.

Population growth leads to more consumers as well as producers. Activating a "dormant" producer segment (as if stay-at-home parenting isn't producing tangible value...) leads to an increase in producers, while the number of consumers stays the same.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#158

Post by mirekrusin »

cortesoft wrote: post #43
jandrese wrote: post #4

We definitely felt this. My wife ended up quitting her job when we had our first because all of the child care options we investigated were going to require basically her entire after-tax income to support. It only made sense if she was planning to grow her career and just ride out the daycare for 5 years until the kid went to school, but even then it's contingent on not having another kid during that time. At the en…

If she did have a career she wanted to continue, the calculation is pretty strong on the 'riding it out until school'. You have to count ALL the salary you are going to make for the next 30-40 years of working, because sitting out for 5 years will have an effect on your income your entire career.

Unless she gets the job a the daycare - I hear they have money to pay well?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#159

Post by astrodust »

epanchin wrote: post #64
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

Do you think inflation has been a significant outcome of this program?

Quebec hasn't become measurably more expensive than other Canadian cities in the last 25 years and is way more affordable than a comparable city like Toronto.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#160

Post by balfirevic »

glofish wrote: post #130
balfirevic wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not going to say that I am much better off for not having a dog. But why not? It doesn't diminish dogs or other people who have dogs in any way, it just means that for you personally disadvantages outweigh advantages. So not having a dog will, on balance, make you... well, better-off.

Because as I pointed out it is already implied and serves no other purpose just antagonize and rub it into someone's face. As a matter of fact it is not even clear that I am better off, I may just think I am, mistakenly. So why reiterate. Finally, the traits that keep me from having a dog are not necessarily virtues, most likely not traits that make a better person.

> Finally, the traits that keep me from having a dog are not necessarily virtues, most likely not traits that make a better person.

Honestly, I wish more people would speak up more about this topic, although not in an antagonizing way that ecoled_ame did. Precisely in order to fight a stereotype that not wanting dogs or children (well, I guess it's more prevalent for the children) makes you a worse person. But I also understand anyone who just doesn't want to announce it or discuss it.

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