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Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

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Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#321

Post by betamaxthetape »

droithomme wrote: post #316

Yahoo has sent emails to everyone allowing them to click a button and get a zip file prepared with everything they have posted or stored on every Yahoo Group they have ever participated in. Blog author and people here believe that outsiders with no connection to these groups have an inherent right to download and republish all this information despite having no license to do so. Yahoo/Verizon seems to think different…

There have been lots of reports that this 'Get My Data' function doesn't work. One of the demands made by the blog author is for Yahoo to fix this so it actually does work.

Additionally, the 'Get My Data' only gives you access to all the files / photos that you uploaded to the group. These archives should not be considered complete archives of the group - is it really reasonable to suggest that in order to completely back up a group, every member must complete their own data request?

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#323

Post by davidgerard »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #198

So this is a serious question: Why in the hell weren't you using something more backupable, like IRC with a bot, or something like this? Given it's biohacking, and not some older-tech thing, you should have 100% known better. Why didn't you?

Yahoo Groups bought a lot of other email list providers. One list I'm on started about three mergers back.

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#324

Post by Diagon »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #322

Is this the future of Facebook when personal data use become heavily regulated, the data will become harder to monetize and the next big thing rize on the horizon?

Probably. Now that the groups I am concerned with are migrating to our own hosted BB, we are also planning to migrate the associated FB groups away. For that, we expect to lose data in the process.

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#325

Post by Diagon »

dredmorbius wrote: post #314

A suggestion I'd made during the G+ shutdown, and active interference (see: https://old.reddit.com/r/plexodus/comments/b87hpi/googles_at... ), was that legal methods be employed. An injunction filed on behalf of Yahoo Groups users to maintain access, delay deletion, and facilitate archival, specifically. Is anyone working on this?

Not that I know of. Lawyers (hopefully not guns) and money would be needed. Suggestions?

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#326

Post by Diagon »

betamaxthetape wrote: post #321
droithomme wrote: post #316

Yahoo has sent emails to everyone allowing them to click a button and get a zip file prepared with everything they have posted or stored on every Yahoo Group they have ever participated in. Blog author and people here believe that outsiders with no connection to these groups have an inherent right to download and republish all this information despite having no license to do so. Yahoo/Verizon seems to think different…

There have been lots of reports that this 'Get My Data' function doesn't work. One of the demands made by the blog author is for Yahoo to fix this so it actually does work. Additionally, the 'Get My Data' only gives you access to all the files / photos that you uploaded to the group. These archives should not be considered complete archives of the group - is it really reasonable to suggest that in order to completely…

Yes, when a group owner wants to migrate to another platform - a bulletin board or the like - they need to be able to get all the group associated data so they can reconstitute their community.

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#327

Post by arianestrasse »

gatherhunterer wrote: post #161
Diagon wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on the first point. The second is perhaps understandable if you read the whole exchange. You know they initially gave us 13 days before they cut off storing any more of the group emails (that is, new emails)? With an outcry, they increased that to 20. Many thousands of people were scrambling to find a new home. We are now reaching the end of the line (the last week) before the archives themselves are gone, an…

A lack of emotional control is usually understandable. But it suggests a lack of care and focus that does not befit an important effort. I learned years ago to never send and email or text or to make a call when angry. I always thank myself the next day when I am able to choose my words more tactfully. That email makes them look like a group of angry trolls.

I'm wholeheartedly supporting the archival effort but was wondering exactly the same thing about the person communicating with Verizone. Her argumentation comes off as quite immature, and she's not making much sense with all that rambling.

Saying stuff such as this sounds pretentious and will unfortunately only get laughed at by anyone in the corporate world: "So the best thing Verizon could do, since they are just going to throw us all into the trash anyway, as we aren’t important to them, is let us get our archives any way we can.

The terms of service really should not apply to people who have been told, we’re gonna delete you from existence. If it’s lawful for us to get them from you, in broken buggy and virus ridden state, it’s just as lawful for us to get them ourselves."

As it is right now, she's just not doing any favors to the archivist community out there. Perhaps someone with proper communication skills and better nerves should take up that role? This is not a time to play a martyr and throw a fit while expecting Verizon to meet you half-way.

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#328

Post by geggam »

logicallee wrote: post #284
pmoriarty wrote: post #11

There have to be some Verizon or Yahoo employees on HN who are reading this. Can any of you shed some light on why Verizon and Yahoo aren't cooperating with the Archive Team to archive this valuable historical content? (If you don't feel comfortable commenting with your regular HN account, maybe you could do so with a throwaway account?) Also, is it possible for any of you to bring this issue to the attention of uppe…

how much storage do you think in total all of the Yahoo Groups content takes?

Over 4 petabytes 8 years ago

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#329

Post by arianestrasse »

oieoeireoes wrote: post #202

Verizon claimed that the archivists violated the "terms of service" [1], but I couldn't find any reference to automation, downloading, crawling, or denial of service attacks that might apply. Does anyone have an idea of exactly what term or terms were violated by the archivists? [1] https://www.verizonmedia.com/policies/us/en/verizonmedia/ter...

Just playing a devil's advocate here. The way archivists are downloading the data can be said to disrupt the services, which is mentioned in the terms of service:

2. d. viii: "interfere with or disrupt the Services or servers, systems or networks connected to the Services in any way."

I'd also like to point out that the apparent spokesperson Brenda Fowler said in her open letter to Verizon, that "If the problem is that all our attempts to rescue our archives in the time we have left is causing an overload or strain on your servers, then stop making us HAVE to work around the clock, and GIVE US MORE TIME. ..." Probably not the wisest thing to say right now.

Also, archiving the groups with automated tools is against the Use of Services rule, that states the following:

2. e: "Use of Services. You must follow any guidelines or policies associated with the Services. You must not misuse or interfere with the Services or try to access them using a method other than the interface and the instructions that we provide. ..."

As I mentioned in another comment, I really support the cause and am a big fan of archiving myself but it's unfortunately quite clear that Verizon is right at calling out the violations of "terms of service".

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#330

Post by dredmorbius »

Diagon wrote: post #325
dredmorbius wrote: post #314

A suggestion I'd made during the G+ shutdown, and active interference (see: https://old.reddit.com/r/plexodus/comments/b87hpi/googles_at... ), was that legal methods be employed. An injunction filed on behalf of Yahoo Groups users to maintain access, delay deletion, and facilitate archival, specifically. Is anyone working on this?

Not that I know of. Lawyers (hopefully not guns) and money would be needed. Suggestions?

I've had some preliminary discussions with EFF.

There's a listing of online privacy and rights foundations I've compiled here:

https://social.antefriguserat.de/index.php/Privacy_and_Elect...

Many are mostly dead. Which may mean partly alive.

(That Wiki in general might best be merged with AT's efforts. I'm the principle editor.)

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