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Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

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Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#251

Post by jml7c5 »

cirno wrote: post #155
pariahHN wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we still had the Library of Alexandria, it may have shed zero light on the actual lives of citizens. Archiving content on the internet means capturing thousands of individual level perspectives and experiences. We don't know what will end up being important to historians 50 or 100 years from now. I would bet there are dozens if not hundreds of historians that would give anything for a record of their favorite…

What about people who don't want stupid comments they made online when they were 14 permanently indexed and searchable for all of time by the Archive Team? Yes, they may have posted to Yahoo! Groups back in 1999 when they didn't know better, but now it's 2019 and you have people digging up decades-old dirt on people to try and destroy their reputations and careers. Given that search engines have zero ethics when it c…

Withhold wide-scale, anonymous access for a few decades maybe? (Though presumably there is a middle ground that doesn't involving leaving _everything_ inaccessible for a few decades.)

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#252

Post by patcon »

patcon wrote: post #91
pariahHN wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we still had the Library of Alexandria, it may have shed zero light on the actual lives of citizens. Archiving content on the internet means capturing thousands of individual level perspectives and experiences. We don't know what will end up being important to historians 50 or 100 years from now. I would bet there are dozens if not hundreds of historians that would give anything for a record of their favorite…

YES! It's like preserving ecological diversity. It's a store for later learning. Verizon is working in cold hard capitalism, and you can bet your lunch that they did NOT use Google Groups to hold their shared wisdom/history, and they would never let it be lost. But many don't have the pockets for better systems, and so their earned knowledge lived on Google Groups. And when you think of all the people and groups that…

Heh *Yahoo Groups, that is

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#253

Post by naniwaduni »

narrator wrote: post #45
jedberg wrote: post #10

It's like the burning of the Library of Alexandria all over again. We don't know exactly what was in the library when it burned. We assume it was all great works of intellectualism, but it could very well have been the fanfics of their time.

I think one of the unintended consequences of privacy legislation is it will support the burning the library of Alexandria over and over again. The default corporate posture will be : Delete all the data! It's a liability and figuring out what we can keep is an enormous headache.

This particularly consequence was so clearly predictable that it's hard to call it unintentional. It's a hard-to-avoid trade-off.

Jury's out on whether it was the right one.

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#254

Post by Diagon »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #246
Diagon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your first point, and tried to get groups I was associated with to move for years, nevertheless there are groups there that engaged in community driven research and have important data uploaded there. (This is my main concern, though other groups were focused on different issues - uploaded art, for example.) So I think while we need to educate people about not using centralized providers like Yahoo…

Protocols, not Platforms ! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20841059

I totally agree. Google? FB? Twitter? How about the Friendiverse? :)

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#255

Post by D-Coder »

cirno wrote: post #155
pariahHN wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we still had the Library of Alexandria, it may have shed zero light on the actual lives of citizens. Archiving content on the internet means capturing thousands of individual level perspectives and experiences. We don't know what will end up being important to historians 50 or 100 years from now. I would bet there are dozens if not hundreds of historians that would give anything for a record of their favorite…

What about people who don't want stupid comments they made online when they were 14 permanently indexed and searchable for all of time by the Archive Team? Yes, they may have posted to Yahoo! Groups back in 1999 when they didn't know better, but now it's 2019 and you have people digging up decades-old dirt on people to try and destroy their reputations and careers. Given that search engines have zero ethics when it c…

I'm pretty sure Yahoo isn't doing this to protect people from their old posts.

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#256

Post by BlueTemplar »

narrator wrote: post #45
jedberg wrote: post #10

It's like the burning of the Library of Alexandria all over again. We don't know exactly what was in the library when it burned. We assume it was all great works of intellectualism, but it could very well have been the fanfics of their time.

I think one of the unintended consequences of privacy legislation is it will support the burning the library of Alexandria over and over again. The default corporate posture will be : Delete all the data! It's a liability and figuring out what we can keep is an enormous headache.

Note that "deleting" is problematic in itself, especially for "cloud" data, considering how storage works, especially transistor one like SSD's !

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#257

Post by kalleboo »

squarefoot wrote: post #117
ignoranceprior wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can install ArchiveTeam Warrior: https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=ArchiveTeam_Warr...

Thanks! I never heard of that before; just like project SETI though for archival purposes. What are the hardware requirements of that VM? I'm attempting to import it on my NAS4Free home NAS Virtualbox service which is the only machine I keep up 24/7 atm, but it takes forever to import. The hardware is very limited however (Atom D410 + a bit over 1GB RAM available), so I'm not sure it would succeed, but so far it load…

I'm running it on a Synology NAS (Celeron J3455), and the docker manager UI claims it's using 180 MB RAM and less than 1% CPU (and I just confirmed it's currently working on archiving Yahoo! Groups)

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#258

Post by BlueTemplar »

8bitsrule wrote: post #236
lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #102

This is a wake-up call to the entire world: we cannot take internet history for granted. We need affordable, decentralized means with long-term economic incentives to archive the digital world. In a way, the digital world is far more fragile than the physical world. And the time to solve this is now.

Tragedy of The Cloud. IIRC, Archive.org is still running its fundraiser today. We need LOTS of publicly-sponsored and paid-for digital archival centers that, like libraries, are maintained for the common welfare. Or we could, you know, add that duty (and funding) to existing libraries! With -paid- archivists!

Yeah, aren't there archiving obligations like that for at least books and movies?

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#259

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

jefftk wrote: post #241
perl4ever wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘There’s no point acting all surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now.’

This was on the front page here in October when it was announced: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21269614

How many non-technical readers are a) going to see that HN post, and b) have any idea what the gobbledygook in those first few posts means?

Re: Verizon/Yahoo Blocking Attempts to Archive Yahoo Groups – Deletion: Dec. 14

#260

Post by ec109685 »

Diagon wrote: post #2

Extensive history is about to be lost. Despite being broken, many organizations still use it. Examples from that post: A police cooperative in Washington DC that was using them as a network to communicate with their respective neighborhoods with over 17,000 members. A phone company in the UK that assigns phone numbers using the groups and now will lose all those phone designations when it’s deleted. A Birding group i…

Not to be flippant, but wouldn't one of the members of these groups have a copy of the group in their email? Given gmail and whatnot store things virtually indefinitely, couldn't the contents be recovered that way?

-EJ

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