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Learning to code vs. learning to automate

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Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#101

Post by freetonik »

nickjj wrote: post #78

If you're on Windows, Auto HotKey is the ultimate tool for automating day to day little things that are hyper specific for your daily work flow. For everything else there's Bash / some scripting language. You can end up with really big quality of life improvements from having a bunch of little things whipped up to solve your problems.

Can Auto HotKey recognize images and click on them? For example, a specific button in an app or a web page?

This is one of the features that keeps me with Keyboards maestro, which keeps me from switching away from macOS.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#102

Post by studentik »

andrepd wrote: post #71
rurcliped wrote: post #68

The problem often isn't ability to automate. It's that the workers closest to the problem have an overwhelming disincentive to automate. Suppose I have a low-level job in Peloton operations. Our Phalange Team must ensure that, before a bike's in-home delivery date is confirmed, the delivery technician has placed an internal order for a left phalange. Each of us spends all day navigating between the Sales app and the…

>4. If I successfully automate it, all of my coworkers lose their jobs. A failure of capitalism when less work and more productivity is a bad thing.

Capitalism is only bad for those who do not share profits coming from better productivity. Government regulation is needed to balance inequality created by capitalism: progressive tax, competition laws, professional unions etc. Workers are also responsible to bargain deals that make them share more benefits and raise their bar. This is everlasting struggle.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#103

Post by pfarrell »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

We are tool makers, not robots. Machine level precision is why we design and build machines. Art isn’t a product to be created for museums; it’s a process, a meditation, a discovery, communication. You’ll note that that the rise of abstract expression in painting correlates with the refinement of photography. We no longer needed humans to create realistic depictions, so we explored deeper into the purpose of those depictions.

I don’t know what life is, but I’d consider it a waste to try to turn all of us into machines. Remember John Henry, the steel drivin’ man?

Also, the potential for evil is too great in such a device.

That’s why your father told you it’s an immoral plan.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#104

Post by nitrogen »

jotm wrote: post #67
MPetitt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was proposing using the TENS for muscle control similarly to https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5QYpD428hAQ

Oh, OK. I also thought it was electroshock motivation. You still can't just "turn off" your mind, most likely. You'll just be trapped there thinking

I have actually met people who vehemently insist that when they "space out" they aren't deep in thought, they are literally off -- not thinking at all.

It's pretty astonishing how much variation there is in people's inner minds. Some can imagine spatial relationships in great detail. Some can't even imagine a simple stick figure, but can instead remember long lists of information.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#105

Post by scrapcode »

duxup wrote: post #79
rurcliped wrote: post #68

The problem often isn't ability to automate. It's that the workers closest to the problem have an overwhelming disincentive to automate. Suppose I have a low-level job in Peloton operations. Our Phalange Team must ensure that, before a bike's in-home delivery date is confirmed, the delivery technician has placed an internal order for a left phalange. Each of us spends all day navigating between the Sales app and the…

I worked at a place where coding was not my job (it was technical support) but I wrote some scripts that automated some stuff. It was handy and everyone liked it. Then someone in the process changed things that the scripts did not understand. Management came running to me upset that this thing I automated didn't work. Being technical support managers most didn't understand (not all but most) that when you change thin…

I have had similar experiences. I've taken very tedious tasks that involved a lot of monotonous paperwork and automated them and that turns everyone's problems into my problem when they don't work the way the user thinks they should. I've also had people use the fact that my tool, which just automates a process that everyone had to do manually in the past anyways, use me and my tool not functioning correctly for them as an excuse to not having the work done on time.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#106

Post by SnowflakeOnIce »

pletnes wrote: post #57
scarface74 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi off topic: Workflow (Shortcuts) for iOS is great and it is semi ported to the Mac via Catalyst libraries ( https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/11810213462240583... ). Hopefully, Apple actually goes whole hog and ports WorkFlow to the Mac next year.

It seems so promising, but I have yet to identify a real use case. Do you have any genuinely useful examples for everyday life?

I use Shortcuts to automatically set volume and start playing a particular playlist when my gym headphones pair with my phone.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#107

Post by lifeisstillgood »

scrapcode wrote: post #105
duxup wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a place where coding was not my job (it was technical support) but I wrote some scripts that automated some stuff. It was handy and everyone liked it. Then someone in the process changed things that the scripts did not understand. Management came running to me upset that this thing I automated didn't work. Being technical support managers most didn't understand (not all but most) that when you change thin…

I have had similar experiences. I've taken very tedious tasks that involved a lot of monotonous paperwork and automated them and that turns everyone's problems into my problem when they don't work the way the user thinks they should. I've also had people use the fact that my tool, which just automates a process that everyone had to do manually in the past anyways, use me and my tool not functioning correctly for them…

> that turns everyone's problems into my problem

I see software as a new form of literacy, and this argument is, for me, a clincher.

Imagine a world where, you were the reader/writer in the company. And if there was a problem with the letters sent from head office, then because you are the reader/writer guy who does all the writing the problems are all yours

Yes, that is correct, as the only reader writer they are your problems. but the wider problem is why are you the only one?

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#108

Post by beefield »

andrepd wrote: post #71
rurcliped wrote: post #68

The problem often isn't ability to automate. It's that the workers closest to the problem have an overwhelming disincentive to automate. Suppose I have a low-level job in Peloton operations. Our Phalange Team must ensure that, before a bike's in-home delivery date is confirmed, the delivery technician has placed an internal order for a left phalange. Each of us spends all day navigating between the Sales app and the…

>4. If I successfully automate it, all of my coworkers lose their jobs. A failure of capitalism when less work and more productivity is a bad thing.

If there is one thing that confuses me, that is productivity.

You start doing the thing you were doing twice as fast earlier, thus your productivity doubles. Kind of, assuming that the price of your product does not change due to your increased productivity. If the price halves at the same time (e.g due to competitive pressure because you were not the only one to figure how to spend half the time doing same thing) your productivity measured in dollars did not change at all. Weird. You do twice the stuff at same time than before and now I claim your productivity did not change. Makes no sense whatsoever. So did your productivity increase or not? I have no clue.

Even further confusion. Your increased(?) productivity just caused that with same amount of money people can by more of your stuff, i.e deflation. Now, why the heck, given the massive increase in productivity(?) during the last century, we have seen inflation, not deflation? Makes no sense to me.

It looks to me like we would need to have more words for different kinds of productivity. Because at least I am confused as heck what that word actually means...

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#109

Post by blotter_paper »

gen220 wrote: post #88
rurcliped wrote: post #68

The problem often isn't ability to automate. It's that the workers closest to the problem have an overwhelming disincentive to automate. Suppose I have a low-level job in Peloton operations. Our Phalange Team must ensure that, before a bike's in-home delivery date is confirmed, the delivery technician has placed an internal order for a left phalange. Each of us spends all day navigating between the Sales app and the…

In my company, each engineer spends about ¼ of their time building or improving tools for sales, marketing, support, or operations. Notice the preposition “for” there. I think the flaw with the scenario you described is that your programs are “replacing” these peoples’ “jobs”, when, in reality, we’re building tools that empower them to perform their jobs more effectively. In the case where we create a self-service op…

I'm not at all convinced that automation only results in the loss of future, and not present, jobs. In some cases the company will use the currently available worker hours for other tasks, but I can also imagine situations where workers that currently have jobs are laid off. A brief googling turned up a Forbes piece that claims millions of jobs have already been lost to automation[0], which seems believable to me whether or not the claim is accurate (Forbes has unapologetically lied in the past). This isn't to say we shouldn't automate things, but we should be aware of the effects of that automation.

[0]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/amysterling/2019/06/15/automate...

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#110

Post by eitland »

freetonik wrote: post #101
nickjj wrote: post #78

If you're on Windows, Auto HotKey is the ultimate tool for automating day to day little things that are hyper specific for your daily work flow. For everything else there's Bash / some scripting language. You can end up with really big quality of life improvements from having a bunch of little things whipped up to solve your problems.

Can Auto HotKey recognize images and click on them? For example, a specific button in an app or a web page? This is one of the features that keeps me with Keyboards maestro, which keeps me from switching away from macOS.

Like this?

https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=47778

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