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Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#31

Post by roter »

acollins1331 wrote: post #18
simonsarris wrote: post #8

Boy are characterizations like this getting tired. An actually accurate title would read something like: Farm and industry run-off in certain areas of the world is depleting oxygen in certain parts of the ocean. The vast majority of the issue isn't related to rising temps, it would still be there if there were no rising temps. It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific part…

Warmer waters increase CO2 dissolution into the water.

CO2 solubility typically decreases with increasing water temperature [0].

[0] https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_...

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#32

Post by thinkcontext »

One of the best ideas I've run across to fight this (aside from stopping the sources of the problem) is vertical ocean farming. You grow kelp on cables hanging vertically in the water column, interspersed with mussels, oysters and scallops. The kelp feeds on the nitrogen and phosphorus runoff and release oxygen and the bivalves filter the water.

The small scale work done so far shows the water gets cleaner and local fish population increases. Kelp grows incredibly quickly and it can be eaten by humans and animals or used as fertilizer. The farming can be done by experienced watermen who probably have suitable boats but are underemployed due to fishing restrictions.

https://www.greenwave.org/

https://ideas.ted.com/vertical-ocean-farms-that-can-feed-us-...

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#33

Post by endorphone »

simonsarris wrote: post #28
endorphone wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warmer waters hold less oxygen. This is fundamental, scientific fact.. The article specifically mentions the relatively small problem of run-off, and then the broader problem of, you know, entire oceans. A relatively constant, albeit still problematic, issue with runoff is pretty mild compared to the potentially for extremely wide-scale change from climate, hence the alarmism. To snidely quote from the beginning of y…

> Warmer waters hold less oxygen. This is fundamental, scientific fact.. Their own characterization is more nuanced than that. The study says that solubility changes account for about 15% (10-30%) [their % and range] of the oxygen change measured. They mention that most of the oxygen loss is at deep levels which are not affected by solubility, though there may be other second order effects from warming. In the sectio…

"Their own characterization is more nuanced than that."

Of course it's more nuanced. I'm speaking directly to their conclusions relative to global warming, clearly, and your very firm put-down of it, though you seem to be backtracking now.

"The study is fine and full of expected caveats. The reporting is bad."

How is the reporting bad? Why? Because it doesn't take a contrarian approach because the science of a massive, very complex system can't be 100%? This is exactly the nonsense every global warming denialist has plied for year ("They're only 99.99% sure, so you should believe my pet theory about like sun spots or something"). It deserves to be stomped out on sight and not tolerated as if it's on some equal footing.

Your post that I replied to has you firmly and with complete conviction wiping away all of it but industrial and farm run off, implying that they just don't know how to measure, etc. It's pretty hard to try to position yourself in the middle ground after that.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#34

Post by ra1n85 »

endorphone wrote: post #29
ra1n85 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sorry you had to go through these trials. How very heroic of you to set the record straight for all these dummies. You surely must have some relevant education and peer group, right? I think you're completely missing the point. The bombast ("the oceans are running out of oxygen","we only have 12 years left") is counter productive. We need to identify actionable problems and address them now. Alarming everyone th…

Science isn't there to make you feel good, motiviated, etc. They're just pointing out what's happening to the best of their abilities to measure and analyze. Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution.

>Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution.

It's not about feeling good, it's about accuracy. If accuracy is something you see as an optional component of reporting, then I'm not going to be able to get on your wavelength.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#35

Post by edoo »

endorphone wrote: post #29
ra1n85 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sorry you had to go through these trials. How very heroic of you to set the record straight for all these dummies. You surely must have some relevant education and peer group, right? I think you're completely missing the point. The bombast ("the oceans are running out of oxygen","we only have 12 years left") is counter productive. We need to identify actionable problems and address them now. Alarming everyone th…

Science isn't there to make you feel good, motiviated, etc. They're just pointing out what's happening to the best of their abilities to measure and analyze. Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution.

They are almost always wrong with science when it comes to policies that aren't backed by a falsifiable hypothesis. It turns out animal fats are the safest fats and vegetable oils are poison. It turns out you don't have to worry about eating cholesterol. The same for salt. The climate hoax is about to be called out for what it is due to the models exponentially diverging from reality. They claim the ozone hole is shrinking due to CFC bans even though CFCs have only risen since they discovered the natural hole. None of this stuff had any falsifiable hypothesis behind it. The creators of UN agenda 21 were open that they would push control even if the science was fake.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#36

Post by endorphone »

ra1n85 wrote: post #34
endorphone wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science isn't there to make you feel good, motiviated, etc. They're just pointing out what's happening to the best of their abilities to measure and analyze. Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution.

>Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution. It's not about feeling good, it's about accuracy. If accuracy is something you see as an optional component of reporting, then I'm not going to be able to get on your wavelength.

"It's not about feeling good, it's about accuracy"

So....what's inaccurate about the reporting? You've strangely yet to mention any, though you did add your own invented "we only have 12 years left" bit for whatever reason (neither the article or report say anything of the sort).

But yes, we aren't going to get on the same wavelength, clearly. Your original post claimed that I "missed the point", when I clearly replied to someone's specific points, then you injected yet another narrative. This is a tactic as old as time for baseless rhetoric -- just constantly spin around the topic, adding just enough noise that you hope it disrupts the conversation.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#37

Post by [deleted] »

edoo wrote: post #35
endorphone wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science isn't there to make you feel good, motiviated, etc. They're just pointing out what's happening to the best of their abilities to measure and analyze. Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution.

They are almost always wrong with science when it comes to policies that aren't backed by a falsifiable hypothesis. It turns out animal fats are the safest fats and vegetable oils are poison. It turns out you don't have to worry about eating cholesterol. The same for salt. The climate hoax is about to be called out for what it is due to the models exponentially diverging from reality. They claim the ozone hole is shr…

[deleted]

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#38

Post by moultano »

ra1n85 wrote: post #34
endorphone wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science isn't there to make you feel good, motiviated, etc. They're just pointing out what's happening to the best of their abilities to measure and analyze. Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution.

>Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution. It's not about feeling good, it's about accuracy. If accuracy is something you see as an optional component of reporting, then I'm not going to be able to get on your wavelength.

If you have complaints about the article's accuracy, spell them out instead of knee-jerking from the headline.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#39

Post by marcosdumay »

endorphone wrote: post #16
czbond wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not informed enough to make a reply comment, but thank you for adding clarity - it informed me.

If you read an article citing the conclusions of an international group with 15,000+ experts in their respective field, many member nations and their scientific establishment, etc, and you believe some random comment by some random guy on the internet adds "clarity", you need to really reconsider how you evaluate information. This is how we ended up in the situations of enormous ignorance in the climate change and im…

The article is written by a single journalist, and clearly sensationalist. What does it matter he quotes 15000 experts if he intentionally distorts what they say?

That random comment by a random guy on the internet is adding clarity.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#40

Post by rch »

endorphone wrote: post #15
simonsarris wrote: post #8

Boy are characterizations like this getting tired. An actually accurate title would read something like: Farm and industry run-off in certain areas of the world is depleting oxygen in certain parts of the ocean. The vast majority of the issue isn't related to rising temps, it would still be there if there were no rising temps. It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific part…

Warmer waters hold less oxygen. This is fundamental, scientific fact.. The article specifically mentions the relatively small problem of run-off, and then the broader problem of, you know, entire oceans. A relatively constant, albeit still problematic, issue with runoff is pretty mild compared to the potentially for extremely wide-scale change from climate, hence the alarmism. To snidely quote from the beginning of y…

The study states that 10-30% of the oxygen loss between 1960 and 2010 is attributed to warming-induced decline in solubility, and that globally "the majority of oxygen loss has been caused by changes in ocean circulation and associated ventilation with oxygen from the ocean surface" (i.e. probably also climate change).

Further, from the study it's clear that "deoxygenation recorded in tropical regions often reflects mostly untreated sewage inputs and agricultural runoff (areas identified in Diaz & Rosenberg, 2008)," with many other citations provided as well.

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