Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 121 posts

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#21

Post by magicalist »

simonsarris wrote: post #8

Boy are characterizations like this getting tired. An actually accurate title would read something like: Farm and industry run-off in certain areas of the world is depleting oxygen in certain parts of the ocean. The vast majority of the issue isn't related to rising temps, it would still be there if there were no rising temps. It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific part…

> It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific parts of the ocean.

I'm not sure why you think we should take your non-expert, evidenceless hot take on a BBC article more seriously than an actual study, but if you'd like to dig in more, here it is: https://portals.iucn.org/library/node/48892

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#22

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

ThomPete wrote: post #7

Pure clickbait "If countries continue with a business-as-usual approach to emissions, the world's oceans are expected to lose 3-4% of their oxygen by the year 2100." That's not running out of oxygen. This is newsmaking, not news reporting and BBC should know better.

I don't know the [potentially exponential] knock-on effects of a 3-4% decrease of oxygen in the ocean.

Do you?

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#23

Post by magicalist »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #19
endorphone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read an article citing the conclusions of an international group with 15,000+ experts in their respective field, many member nations and their scientific establishment, etc, and you believe some random comment by some random guy on the internet adds "clarity", you need to really reconsider how you evaluate information. This is how we ended up in the situations of enormous ignorance in the climate change and im…

While I agree with you, it's not unreasonable to try to correct for expected press sensationalism.

> While I agree with you, it's not unreasonable to try to correct for expected press sensationalism.

I don't see why a random internet commentator's pet theory (with nothing in the article to support it) should be treated as necessarily better.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#24

Post by endorphone »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #19
endorphone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read an article citing the conclusions of an international group with 15,000+ experts in their respective field, many member nations and their scientific establishment, etc, and you believe some random comment by some random guy on the internet adds "clarity", you need to really reconsider how you evaluate information. This is how we ended up in the situations of enormous ignorance in the climate change and im…

While I agree with you, it's not unreasonable to try to correct for expected press sensationalism.

Sure, if the root post analyzed the study, or even did the most cursory skim of it, and pointed out how the article differed from its conclusions, that would be valuable.

They didn't. They blanket dismissed it, gave their own theory, and expressed how tired they are from this cross they must bear.

https://www.unitgraphics.com/deox/IUCNDeoxreportBOOK15-11-20... (77MB)

There's the actual study. The BBC article is pretty accurate in its summary.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#25

Post by radicalbyte »

sambull wrote: post #6
ianai wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want a climate change dictator?

Dictator? I simply said the market/and economists can't price in damage to our environment and won't. If you feel any regulation on a corporation is being a dictator than maybe the answer is yes in your context. We've had to dictate the direction many times in the past when industry has become to exploitative of either labor or resources.

The market certainly can be regulated in such a way as to effectively price in the costs.

If we can have companies following constructs such as Sarbanes-Oxley then they can most certainly follow the constraints of environmental constructs.

Unless you mean that certain vested interests will bankroll politicians to cut regulation? Then yes, that is a very big problems (see: Koch industries buying their way out of environmental legislation) but not insurmountable.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#26

Post by duelingjello »

simonsarris wrote: post #8

Boy are characterizations like this getting tired. An actually accurate title would read something like: Farm and industry run-off in certain areas of the world is depleting oxygen in certain parts of the ocean. The vast majority of the issue isn't related to rising temps, it would still be there if there were no rising temps. It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific part…

Incrementalism and delay won't solve the climate change emergency fast enough, which means we and the planet die. Is that what you want? We have the money and the ability (Bio CCS) to solve CO2 levels back to 280-300 ppm for about the total cost of the US campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#27

Post by ra1n85 »

endorphone wrote: post #15
simonsarris wrote: post #8

Boy are characterizations like this getting tired. An actually accurate title would read something like: Farm and industry run-off in certain areas of the world is depleting oxygen in certain parts of the ocean. The vast majority of the issue isn't related to rising temps, it would still be there if there were no rising temps. It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific part…

Warmer waters hold less oxygen. This is fundamental, scientific fact.. The article specifically mentions the relatively small problem of run-off, and then the broader problem of, you know, entire oceans. A relatively constant, albeit still problematic, issue with runoff is pretty mild compared to the potentially for extremely wide-scale change from climate, hence the alarmism. To snidely quote from the beginning of y…

>I'm sorry you had to go through these trials. How very heroic of you to set the record straight for all these dummies. You surely must have some relevant education and peer group, right?

I think you're completely missing the point.

The bombast ("the oceans are running out of oxygen","we only have 12 years left") is counter productive. We need to identify actionable problems and address them now. Alarming everyone through apocalyptic headlines will only fatigue and confuse.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#28

Post by simonsarris »

endorphone wrote: post #15
simonsarris wrote: post #8

Boy are characterizations like this getting tired. An actually accurate title would read something like: Farm and industry run-off in certain areas of the world is depleting oxygen in certain parts of the ocean. The vast majority of the issue isn't related to rising temps, it would still be there if there were no rising temps. It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific part…

Warmer waters hold less oxygen. This is fundamental, scientific fact.. The article specifically mentions the relatively small problem of run-off, and then the broader problem of, you know, entire oceans. A relatively constant, albeit still problematic, issue with runoff is pretty mild compared to the potentially for extremely wide-scale change from climate, hence the alarmism. To snidely quote from the beginning of y…

> Warmer waters hold less oxygen. This is fundamental, scientific fact..

Their own characterization is more nuanced than that. The study says that solubility changes account for about 15% (10-30%) [their % and range] of the oxygen change measured. They mention that most of the oxygen loss is at deep levels which are not affected by solubility, though there may be other second order effects from warming. In the section 3.1 conclusion they also mention the big gaps in models vs observed data, and wonder what they're missing.

The study is fine and full of expected caveats. The reporting is lame.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#29

Post by endorphone »

ra1n85 wrote: post #27
endorphone wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warmer waters hold less oxygen. This is fundamental, scientific fact.. The article specifically mentions the relatively small problem of run-off, and then the broader problem of, you know, entire oceans. A relatively constant, albeit still problematic, issue with runoff is pretty mild compared to the potentially for extremely wide-scale change from climate, hence the alarmism. To snidely quote from the beginning of y…

>I'm sorry you had to go through these trials. How very heroic of you to set the record straight for all these dummies. You surely must have some relevant education and peer group, right? I think you're completely missing the point. The bombast ("the oceans are running out of oxygen","we only have 12 years left") is counter productive. We need to identify actionable problems and address them now. Alarming everyone th…

Science isn't there to make you feel good, motiviated, etc. They're just pointing out what's happening to the best of their abilities to measure and analyze. Demanding a feel-good or less dire reporting on it isn't a solution.

Re: Climate change and nutrient pollution are depleting oxygen from oceans: study

#30

Post by hcknwscommenter »

acollins1331 wrote: post #18
simonsarris wrote: post #8

Boy are characterizations like this getting tired. An actually accurate title would read something like: Farm and industry run-off in certain areas of the world is depleting oxygen in certain parts of the ocean. The vast majority of the issue isn't related to rising temps, it would still be there if there were no rising temps. It is the agricultural and industrial runoff in what I suspect are very, very specific part…

Warmer waters increase CO2 dissolution into the water.

That is very incorrect. While heat helps dissolve ionic compounds like salt, it has the opposite effect for CO2.
Post reply on HN