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California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

calmatters.org

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Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#81

Post by RandomBacon »

harikb wrote: post #32
jedberg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's kind of random. Last time I was on jury selection, the defendant, a black man, was accused of robbing a bank at gunpoint. The woman being questioned for jury duty was asked about being a victim of crime. She said, "I've been a bank teller for over 20 years. I've been robbed at gunpoint three times, and every time it was a black man. Black men are always guilty". I was shocked she would say such a thing,…

There is a good chance she used an explicit statement like that to get herself dismissed from the jury pool.

Perhaps the lawyer thought the blatent racism would shock the other jurors and make them more likely to "overcorrect"/compensate and be lienent or find the defendant not guilty (IDK facts of the case).

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#82

Post by wongarsu »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #45
gnicholas wrote: post #19

I've served on a jury in CA and have seen jury selection on a couple occasions. Based on what I've seen, I think it will remain highly unlikely that a convicted felon will make their way onto a jury of a criminal trial (civil trials might be more likely). In the standard questionnaire that prospective jurors are given, they are asked if they or members of their immediate family have been victims of a crime, or if the…

In my experience, judges will themselves excuse jurors who have family in law enforcement (parent, spouse, sibling), which means the lawyers don't have to bother using a challenge on it. I would expect the same will happen with many/most criminal convictions, especially when they are related to the crime that is alleged. That's not been my experience, and I've sat through the process in San Francisco 3-4 times so far…

At least you are judged by a jury of your peers. Of course by "your peers" we mean we exclude people with the same profession as you, and we don't really mean people of the same social class. It might be people from your general area, unless the trial happens somewhere else where the laws favor the accusing party. But at least we can guarantee that your peers are humans. That ought to be enough.

Best system.

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#83

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

vishnu_ks wrote: post #80

I recently listened to a podcast in which James Beshar interviews an anonymous San Francisco police officer who has been in the service for a long time. The police officer said that there are a lot of loopholes(not talking about paroles, probation or anything related) in California justice system in particular that allows felons to come out much faster than the actual time sentenced. For example felons that are sente…

The article specifically stated the law would only apply to those felons no longer on parole or probation.

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#84

Post by NeedMoreTea »

vishnu_ks wrote: post #80

I recently listened to a podcast in which James Beshar interviews an anonymous San Francisco police officer who has been in the service for a long time. The police officer said that there are a lot of loopholes(not talking about paroles, probation or anything related) in California justice system in particular that allows felons to come out much faster than the actual time sentenced. For example felons that are sente…

What you call "loopholes" are thankfully a standard part of most justice systems, by design.

It's called parole, sometimes released on licence. First you have to get past the parole board who will assess your suitability for release. The theory is to grant you supervised access back to society to regain your place in society. While on parole there's all sorts of reason you can find yourself back inside. Half or two thirds of sentence is pretty common too.

What America does different is not having post sentence - that's post release and parole - rehabilitation, you are always an ex-felon, even after 50 years law abiding. Other nations find offenders can often reform and regain a place in society, particularly if given a fair chance...

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#85

Post by vishnu_ks »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #83
vishnu_ks wrote: post #80

I recently listened to a podcast in which James Beshar interviews an anonymous San Francisco police officer who has been in the service for a long time. The police officer said that there are a lot of loopholes(not talking about paroles, probation or anything related) in California justice system in particular that allows felons to come out much faster than the actual time sentenced. For example felons that are sente…

The article specifically stated the law would only apply to those felons no longer on parole or probation.

I am not taking about Parole or Probation. Time sentenced in certain jails or prisons would be counted as 2x or 3x more the time served. So cases are often delayed by the lawyers so that felons stay in these jails longer and can come out early. The podcast has more details. I am myself not well versed with the exact terminology.

Updated my original comment for clarity

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#86

Post by maxlybbert »

pell wrote: post #46
jedberg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's kind of random. Last time I was on jury selection, the defendant, a black man, was accused of robbing a bank at gunpoint. The woman being questioned for jury duty was asked about being a victim of crime. She said, "I've been a bank teller for over 20 years. I've been robbed at gunpoint three times, and every time it was a black man. Black men are always guilty". I was shocked she would say such a thing,…

The jury system seems completely corrupt to me. I am glad we do not use this method in criminal trials here in Germany where I live.

I used to have a very low opinion of the jury system. I can’t imagine how a system designed to be swayed by emotional or ignorant but opinionated people would look any different from what we already have.

After I served on a jury, I had to admit that, whatever its faults, there is some value to occasionally explaining the law to random citizens and asking them to apply it in a given case. It should put a limit on how weird or explicitly unfair the law can be. To be honest, it’s not much of a limit. Several words already have a different legal meaning than their everyday meaning (e.g., in copyright law, “to copy” includes activities that don’t end with an identical copy of the protected work). But there is some limit.

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#87

Post by vishnu_ks »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #84
vishnu_ks wrote: post #80

I recently listened to a podcast in which James Beshar interviews an anonymous San Francisco police officer who has been in the service for a long time. The police officer said that there are a lot of loopholes(not talking about paroles, probation or anything related) in California justice system in particular that allows felons to come out much faster than the actual time sentenced. For example felons that are sente…

What you call "loopholes" are thankfully a standard part of most justice systems, by design. It's called parole, sometimes released on licence. First you have to get past the parole board who will assess your suitability for release. The theory is to grant you supervised access back to society to regain your place in society. While on parole there's all sorts of reason you can find yourself back inside. Half or two t…

I am not taking about Parole or Probation. Time sentenced in certain jails or prisons would be counted as 2x or 3x more the time served. So cases are often delayed by the lawyers so that felons stay in these jails longer and can come out early. The podcast has more details. I am myself not well versed with the exact terminology.

Updated my original comment for clarity.

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#88

Post by sethammons »

kevingadd wrote: post #72
EliRivers wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A jury of our peers is as good as it gets, folks. Is it? How about professional jurors. Would that be an improvement? Or a mix of the two; some peers, some professionals. Or what about short-engagement professional jurors - selected from the citizenry at large, but then given some proper training and acting as jurors for a year. Or perhaps a cadre of professionally trained jurors who take a few months to become train…

What specifically makes "professional jurors" better, though? I won't say the idea isn't appealing, but what about making them professionals makes them better than our peers? There are already a bunch of heavily regulated professionals involved in the process so it's kind of arbitrary to claim that we need to regulate more of it. Why not limit witness testimony to professionals too?

In the jury I sat on, we had a question about the the law and it's wording. The response we got was, "you have already received your instructions." Gee, thanks. Someone more well versed might have better understood the definition.

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#89

Post by NeedMoreTea »

sethammons wrote: post #88
kevingadd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically makes "professional jurors" better, though? I won't say the idea isn't appealing, but what about making them professionals makes them better than our peers? There are already a bunch of heavily regulated professionals involved in the process so it's kind of arbitrary to claim that we need to regulate more of it. Why not limit witness testimony to professionals too?

In the jury I sat on, we had a question about the the law and it's wording. The response we got was, "you have already received your instructions." Gee, thanks. Someone more well versed might have better understood the definition.

One of the juries I served, in the UK, had a similar question about a specific aspect of the law related to the trial. There was a 30 minute recess and judge, prosecution and defence discussed how best to explain - presumably without influencing in favour of either side - then we were brought back, told, and asked if that was enough. It was surprisingly involved for what we thought a simple clarification.

Having been on the inside of juries now, it restores some faith in some aspects, but you also realise far clearer where potential problems and limits are.

Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries

#90

Post by maxlybbert »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #56
elchief wrote: post #39

If you served your time, you served your time. If not, shoulda got more time

Would you let a pedophile who served his time babysit your children?

I wouldn’t let a pedophile babysit my children (and I actually do know people who served time for pedophile-related crimes). But the question is “would you let a pedophile do any job?” I don’t see why I should object to a pedophile working as an accountant, stock broker, software tester, or juror.
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