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Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

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Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#11

Post by akhilcacharya »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #4

First and foremost, don't worry about not getting into . The admissions process is not fair, and in fact, it's unfair is well documented in a couple of court cases. (See Student's for Fair Admission court case docs [1] Your admissions decision is not a reflection of you as a person. Next, I wouldn't really draw comparisons between success and failure in starts ups and academic institutions, as success in getting into…

> First and foremost, don't worry about not getting into .

Potentially unpopular opinion - one thing I've noticed where you get in is a somewhat good indication of future success, whereas attending is far noisier. I know countless successful people who are included as examples of folks that "succeeded despite going to a non-competitive school" despite the fact that they got into significantly more competitive ones.

(Disclaimer - I didn't get into any elite schools..)

Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#13

Post by wespiser_2018 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #11
wespiser_2018 wrote: post #4

First and foremost, don't worry about not getting into . The admissions process is not fair, and in fact, it's unfair is well documented in a couple of court cases. (See Student's for Fair Admission court case docs [1] Your admissions decision is not a reflection of you as a person. Next, I wouldn't really draw comparisons between success and failure in starts ups and academic institutions, as success in getting into…

> First and foremost, don't worry about not getting into . Potentially unpopular opinion - one thing I've noticed where you get in is a somewhat good indication of future success, whereas attending is far noisier. I know countless successful people who are included as examples of folks that "succeeded despite going to a non-competitive school" despite the fact that they got into significantly more competitive ones. (…

Yea, in general, to get into a competitive school, you already have a lot going for you: namely a stable enough home life, and supportive enough and enriching environment that you can dedicate yourself to applying your intelligence to creating a competitive application. It's kind of weird, the people that get into the schools are the ones that "need" them the least.

Conversely, there is some evidence that less privileged students have worse outcomes if they attend an elite school (compared to lower tier schools) in a substantial amount of cases where these students have not prepared to the same level as peers that have undergone a more competitive selection criteria.

Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#14

Post by voz14005 »

The university you go to is a factor in your entreprenurial journey. Stanford is likely the best outcome in the school factor you want to be a startup founder. But there are many other factors to optimize for beyond college.

The ultimate thing to optimize for is to build something people want.

The college you go to is just one factor feeding into that.

Don't let a poor outcome in one factor cause you to lose focus on the ultimate goal.

And here's a tip: go to another school in the Bay Area, find the hottest startup, and offer value to them until they let you intern there. 4 years of that (or even at a few startups) is worth more than anything you would have gotten from any school. And don't forget to read all the startup books.

Edit: I realized I didn't really answer your question so here goes: yes luck plays a huge factor, especially as you move from predicatable businesses such as commerical real estate to hypergrowth moonshots like Google and Facebook. But all startup founders face setbacks, and you've just witenssed your first highly visible setback. Don't let it rock your ship; instead use it to fuel your fire.

Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#15

Post by jonahbenton »

Different kinds of luck, and a different kind of game.

Stanford is small, arbitrary luck in a single play game, where failure usually is not something you can learn from, because you will never apply to Stanford again.

One's startup journey is best thought of as an iterated game, where luck mostly around timing, and you can learn from failure and practice your timing.

In targeting an elite college you are in a lottery with 100s of others for each seat. Of those hundreds a few might actually not be "qualified" but generally there is nothing substantial to distinguish 99% of those who don't get in.

Being chosen or not is a particular kind of small luck- the sort of arbitrary circumstantial occurrance that is not under your control and is not something you can learn from. Not "getting in" is not failure, unless you think not meeting the demands of your ego is failure (it isn't).

In starting a business, the range of moves and outcomes, the game board, is SO MUCH LARGER and SO MUCH MORE REAL than anything involved in getting into even an elite college. Here you have other people's money and their livelihoods at stake, not just your own ego. Here success and failure are much more tangible and much more distinguishes between them. Execution is much, much more complicated.

Even among startups who execute well, most still fail because of timing. The ones that succeed also do so largely because of timing. This "luck" around timing is something you can learn.

Said another way- my daughters are used to scoring high 90%s in their academics. Every day I tell them the real world is where the people doing the best are scoring around 5-10%, and of those who do it best the ones who succeed get their 1 right out of 10/20 at just the right time.

Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#17

Post by muzani »

sixtypoundhound wrote: post #9

Both are nice to have but ultimately irrelevant to your success in life. Means nothing in the long run. Just do you. And work to get to a level of accomplishment where you don't need to worry about getting accepted / funded. Successful graduate of an "elite" university. With a wife from a state school who kicked his ass financially before we got hitched... (just saying)

Eh, I come from a fairly elite university, I did a startup, and I think both of them have played huge parts in my current situation. They're the kind of thing that get me about double the average salary, or random emails from interesting people.

I wouldn't say it means nothing. It certainly does mean something. But it is one path of many.

Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#18

Post by muzani »

Luck is the determining factor to life. Except both startups and colleges use different types of luck. Startup luck is more similar to 'real life' luck. College admissions luck is much more controllable in a sense.

Pretty much everything you do should be just to put yourself in a position to be lucky. It's sort of like sports - there's no one guaranteed strategy to score goals, but you have to put yourself in a good position to be lucky.

A degree doesn't guarantee you a better career. It just puts you in a good position to be lucky - if an opportunity lands, it's likely going to the one with more education.

You be nice to people because it helps you get lucky. You be proactive because it helps you get lucky. You work really hard because the world respects hard workers, which helps you to get lucky.

Presence helps you get lucky. i.e. not being in the future or the past, or in some virtual world. Just being present, observing the world as it is, finding the irregularities that everyone is too busy to see.

Or heck, just smiling a lot, being optimistic, cheerful, energetic, fun to be around.

Basically there's a lot of these little things that help a lot in getting lucky. But this doesn't apply so much to college applications besides interviews.

Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#19

Post by akhilcacharya »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #13
akhilcacharya wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First and foremost, don't worry about not getting into . Potentially unpopular opinion - one thing I've noticed where you get in is a somewhat good indication of future success, whereas attending is far noisier. I know countless successful people who are included as examples of folks that "succeeded despite going to a non-competitive school" despite the fact that they got into significantly more competitive ones. (…

Yea, in general, to get into a competitive school, you already have a lot going for you: namely a stable enough home life, and supportive enough and enriching environment that you can dedicate yourself to applying your intelligence to creating a competitive application. It's kind of weird, the people that get into the schools are the ones that "need" them the least. Conversely, there is some evidence that less privil…

I’m not convinced about the latter, but I am convinced that it’s difficult to get out of the hole you’re in if you can’t get into an elite school at 17/18. I’ve basically given up.

Re: Ask HN: Are Startups similar to college admissions?

#20

Post by barnettx »

WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #6

This may be an unpopular opinion, but here we go. It depends on how you define "startup". There are two common definitions, and people confuse them all the time and don't make clear what they are talking about. 1. A VC-backed company whose primary goal is exponential growth with a small chance of an outsized return. 2. A profitable business. If your goal is to do the first, then luck will play a large role. That's wh…

great points

> If your goal is to build a profitable business not focused on exponential growth or VC-sized returns, then luck plays a smaller role.

a bit of background. I started Android development at 12 and published a few apps on the app stores. Tasted the fun of building one's own business and earning money by myself. I have always dreamed of building the next big thing.

I think now I'm slowly realising that building the next big thing is really difficult. It might not even be something I'm aiming for any more now that have better insights on the workings of exponential growth. The stress and luck involved reminded me of this college situation I'm in.

> I recommend reading "Fooled By Randomess"

gonna give this a read. thanks!

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