A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier • Hacker News Board

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#721

Post by soulofmischief » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

RockIslandLine wrote: post #699

soulofmischief wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth is that some people simply just start off in a tough situation, work hard, and never get a lucky break. Your tone implies that I don't understand the disparity of the human condition. I lived my entire life very impoverished and at times homeless. I come from a very abusive household and grew up in a rural area with little prospects. I've never caught a break. I saw a way out, computers, and I took it.…

"I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time." So clearly, everyone can follow that same path, right?

No. You're presenting a false dichotomy. There is a spectrum of careers to choose from. However, I do think the average person can get into a tech career provided they pursue the right education. They better, as entry-level tech becomes the new blue collar.

It is a failure on society's part that free career counseling and mentoring isn't mandatory, however as individual agents we must also take personal agency and make up for the shortfalls of society.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#722

Post by soulofmischief » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

robbiep wrote: post #711

konradb wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say slicing the Gordian Knot (and fixing the lack of agency), what would be some examples?

You may have experienced this but being an outsider sometimes allows ‘clear’ perspectives on optier people’s issues. Ie a person in a relationship with someone clearly toxic. Or experiencing domestic abuse. The external answer is ‘leave’, the person doesn’t. The obese patient - walk, change diet. The representing twenty year old with third presentation cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome - pretty much every time you smo…

It's not a rational choice. There has to be some level of personal agency in this decision. Ms. Brown is only 28.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#723

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 9:42 AM UTC

ido wrote: post #635

eptcyka wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just 5 years ago, I would've considered 1600 Euros or the pound equivalent a month to be plenty of money. At the time, I was a student living in the UK. Some years earlier still, whilst back in my native baltic state, that kind of a monthly income would seem super comfortable.

The biggest difference is that housing is a lot more expensive in western cities - it is likely that even a modest 2-room (1-bedroom) apartment in a major city like Amsterdam would cost the majority of that wage to rent (and we're not talking about just students, but older people who can't get better jobs).

You say it like you just grabbed a random example, but Amsterdam is one of the most expensive places to rent in NL. It's also generally not at all representative for the Netherlands as a whole.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#724

Post by silexia » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #112

I worked a pizza (among others) job through high school and college. I've been overworked at many professional technical jobs in different roles before. I'm paid a great deal more now, and yet I was never more tired or worn out or found it hard to study than when I worked the ovens at the pizza place. I often work with people who have never worked such jobs. They're upset that they're 'overworked' and spend their tim…

I started my career working the night shift stocking shelves at Home Depot and riding the bus. I now own a 180 full time employee agency and am on the other side. The solution here must come from the government... McDonald's and no other single employer can raise wages as their competitors will not and they will go out of business due to being too expensive.

I agree with the Fight for $15... But I think they need to attach this to inflation or somehow as a percentage of the highest incomes in the economy. Otherwise Trump will just keep pressuring the Fed to print more money and $15 will only be worth $5 in today's money.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#725

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

sjy wrote: post #717

scarface74 wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Left to their own devices they couldn’t afford to pay their employees anything. The mom and pop shop can’t get millions of dollars thrown at them because they “pattern match” what a successful founder “looks like” without a business plan. They actually have to be profitable.

Suppose that this was fixed, and tech companies had to be profitable to stay in business, like mom and pop shops. Would that do anything to improve the circumstances of the McDonald’s worker described in this article?

Would it do the worker or the franchise owner (who on average makes between $65K and $150K a year) any good if the company was out of business?

What if capital wasn’t chasing after money losing startups where the VC partners take 20% management fees no matter how badly the fund performs - much of that money coming from public pensions?

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#726

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

ShinTakuya wrote: post #513

scarface74 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet your country also has universal healthcare and a better safety net.

Sure, and there's nothing stopping your country from doing the same. I mean healthcare is basically irrelevant since minimum wage workers can't afford to look after health conditions regardless of whether or not they have a job. Regardless, there's no observed correlation between minimum wage and unemployment if that's what you're getting at.

Well, the unemployment rate in most European countries is twice that of the US....

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#727

Post by freeflight » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 6:28 PM UTC

StacyRoberts wrote: post #705

xyzzyz wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does society tolerate &^%$ jobs in the first place? Why not strive to make jobs non-&^%$? We do strive, which is why we have non-shit jobs now. After the advent of agriculture, overwhelming majority of people has worked mundane, tiring, repetitive and straining jobs. It’s only recent increases in technology allowed us to produce immense amounts of wealth, finally allowing huge swaths of population to enjoy ligh…

We should pay the most for those jobs. Instead those who move money from this account to that account our convince people to spend more money than they need to make the most. Fake work.

As radical as this sounds, there might actually be something to it.

Service and social jobs are usually those "closest to the base", being in constant contact with people from all walks of life, while at the same time usually the least well paid.

That's a lot of exposure compared to many other jobs, in particular, desk jobs and pretty much most management and executive positions.

Imho the importance of such real in flesh contact to other people, across peer groups, is vastly underestimated these days.

The ever-present social media gives digitally affine people often the misleading idea they can find everybody, with all their issues and opinions, online but from my experience that just holds not true.

There's plenty of people out there that don't even know what Facebook is, as unbelievable as that might sound.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#728

Post by natalyarostova » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

soulofmischief wrote: post #719

natalyarostova wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not judging anyone. Judgement is a moral action. I’m recognizing the self evident truth that for many people they fundamentally lack the ability to plan and take care of themselves properly or thoughtfully with regard to the long run. It’s not about thinking we’re better than them — which is an ambiguous moral statement. It’s recognizing we have a substantially greater ability than them and viewing that as a resp…

I guess people may have found your presentation abrasive, but it was just blunt. I wouldn't call most people stupid. In fact, most people are of average intelligence and by definition are not stupid. We can't be overreaching in our expectation of the mental prowess of evolved apes, everything is relative.

Yeah I was needlessly abrasive, which was my bad.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#729

Post by StacyRoberts » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #727

StacyRoberts wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should pay the most for those jobs. Instead those who move money from this account to that account our convince people to spend more money than they need to make the most. Fake work.

As radical as this sounds, there might actually be something to it. Service and social jobs are usually those "closest to the base", being in constant contact with people from all walks of life, while at the same time usually the least well paid. That's a lot of exposure compared to many other jobs, in particular, desk jobs and pretty much most management and executive positions. Imho the importance of such real in f…

Hypothesis: McDonald's pays brilliant automation or engineering type minds to do difficult to automate work like we are discussing here. Big salaries. Only part time. The other half is spent on the engineering. Make these jobs sought after.

Slowly the org transitions to much higher paid people in these roles across the board.

I think part of it is mgmt types think they save money reducing wages for the most numerous type of employee and it creates a black hole race to the bottom.

High end restaurants have very well paid front of house because they have a financial incentive to perform. Cashiers don't.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#730

Post by monoideism » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 11:11 PM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #481

seem_2211 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the struggle for people in these jobs is mostly around the consistency in hours, and the miserly low pay. Both of which are deliberate choices by the firms that employ them. To some degree, serving the "customer" by cutting labour costs to the bare minimum (as a way to minimize the cost of everything), means we create an awful existence for the people who depend on these jobs for a living. The tyranny o…

I am with you on: * not having to cut labor to the minimum as a basic value * sooo many jobs would be unobjectionable at 8 hours per week. Almost any job. * professions should be designed to balance physical and mental labor, particularly to offer breaks from painful standing. I am not with you on: * Giving people 167% of the average hourly wage for an easy job like retail. As a society, we do not _want_ retail to be…

> ...an easy job like retail....Retail should pay less than other jobs, _because_ it's more fun to interact with people all day than to work at a hot grill.

Your response screams, "I've never worked a retail job in my life!!". There's nothing easy about working retail in the United States, and interacting with the majority of retail customers is far from "fun".