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The Lesson to Unlearn

paulgraham.com

71–80 of 588 posts

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#71
post #20

My wife and I are contemplating unschooling our kids. The longer our son is in primary school, the more we see the deterioration of his willingness to learn anything school-related. He hates homework (as do most kids), and this is even more painful to see given that it has been shown that homework is essentially useless for learning performance. He still likes to write and do math, but as long as he is in school, we…

> it has been shown that homework is essentially useless for learning performance

I am curious, is this about some particular kind of homework? From my own experience, I would think that exercising a subject alone (which is what most homework was in my school system at least) is a very good way of understanding it better. I of course remember not wanting to do homework many times, and I remember excessive or idiotic homework assignments, but overall homework seemed to be one of the major modes of learning for me.

Also, related to Gates, Page, Brin - I don't generally think that it's a good idea to look at a small number of very successful people and try to emulate some part of their life experience - you are, în general, very likely to fall for some kind of survivorship bias, or accidentally home in on a less important detail (for example, Gates was probably helped much more by his extremely wealthy and well-connected family than any particular aspect of his schooling).

On the other hand, there are many voices saying that one of the important purposes of the public education system is to engender conformity, which is very rarely conducive to a truly out of the ordinary life. Noam Chomsky would be one of the most credible, and he has often credited his own career to his non-standard early schooling.

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#72
post #63

Not sure I agree with this. The real world is very much about optimizing for and beating tests. It might be producing a specific CV or preparing for an interview whiteboard session to land a job. It might be socializing and networking in a specific way in order to land funding. The real world does not commonly reward just being really good at arbitrary things. It's almost always focused on meeting a need that someone…

That is only true if your life ambition is securing a job with that successful tech company. If your ambition is being successful on your own, as an academic, an entrepreneur or as an artist, there are no standardized tests to beat.

Being successful academic is all about optimizing for various tests and metrics and beating tests. It would be hard to find more institutionalized occupation.

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#73
I'm a non degree student at an ivy league and I took a course this semester because I wanted to learn the basic fundamentals of electrical engineering. Because I'm learning because I want to, I put in effort into things I find interesting and difficult without the pressure of deadlines and grades. I love grades because it gives me the feedback I need (otherwise I would "learn" from youtube videos and pdfs) to assess how well I know the subject.

I can take breaks from truly hard problems until I have enough clarity of mind to approach the problem with a new perspective. I can't do that with a deadline.

I don't care if the answers "are out there" meaning the professor has returned graded tests and posted the answers; I do the work because I want to learn. That paradox of students wanting to review graded homeworks and students who want to learn by doing the homework is resolved practically by those that are more vocal about their wants.

I'm happy to take my time, doing my best (with the understanding that my best takes time) and observing my grade afterwards. Sometimes my learning takes me down paths that harder and more rewarding with the consequence that I take longer than others: I am a slow learner.

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#74
post #66

I got into "computer science" before there was a CS degree. Our CS classes were taught in the math dept (fortran), business dept (cobol), or engineering (assembler). The profs were literally 1 chapter ahead of the students. I, however, was in love with the subject. I was the "student advisor" in our "machine room". We had 5 teletypes connected to a remote mainframe at Rutgers. I lived and breathed CS. I wrote tests f…

[deleted]

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#75
Good grades = Passing well paying jobs resume filter = startup initial capital for 90% of the population without access to the bank of mom and dad or a large inheritance.

PG starting to lose touch with regular joe.

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#77
To use a fun analogy, the teachers write the unit tests and you pass them by writing a mock or fake implementation of knowledge.

edit: and now I got to a point in the article where that's pretty much already said. Well, too late to delete this comment now.

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#78
post #20

My wife and I are contemplating unschooling our kids. The longer our son is in primary school, the more we see the deterioration of his willingness to learn anything school-related. He hates homework (as do most kids), and this is even more painful to see given that it has been shown that homework is essentially useless for learning performance. He still likes to write and do math, but as long as he is in school, we…

I'm curious about Page & Brin - I wasn't aware they didn't go through conventional schooling. What was their background?

Montessori iirc

Re: The Lesson to Unlearn

#80
An important corollary is that school and tests teach you not to be wrong. They teach you that incorrect answers will be punished.

Yet, most interesting questions in life don’t yet have defined answers. Thus you need to have and test a hypothesis, which will very often be “incorrect” the first time around. But that doesn’t actually matter - the mere act of thinking about and defining what an answer could be sets you up to iterate and test. Eventually, you may find product market fit (a - not the - right answer).

You have to be willing to be wrong at first to learn...and win.

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