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Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

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101–110 of 276 posts

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#101
Lots of advice to raise your prices, which I agree with, but just be careful if quoting for a dream project or something in an industry you want to move into.

I recently quoted for such a project, with a higher price than usual but not unreasonable at all. Heard nothing back from the client for weeks now when discussions were previously going well. I feel like they have taken offence at my quote or something.

I am a bit of specialist in the particular area so pretty sure they won't find someone else to do it for less, which was part of the reason for my slightly higher quote.

Any advice on how to follow up in a situation like that?

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#102
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per project is dangerous. Consulting clients will change their minds frequently and you'll want to give them the latitude to do so, which means you simply can't estimate the time needed to complete a project without adding X00% on top to compensate. No one wants to have the "this is out of scope, I'm happy to do it but we need to talk about an amendment..." conversation. Per hour is not adequate for this type of work…

> Saying yes too fast means you need to charge more. In this instance what’s the tactic to increase the price you’re quoting the client? Are they not going to think it’s weird you’ve changed your mind about the price?

What GP means is that you need to in general charge more. You don't charge more to the person who just hired you.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#103
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country are you basing this advice on? I think it’s good advice, but if your income can increase by 20-30% as a result of optimising your business structure for tax purposes, that’s a dysfunctional tax system. I’d like to believe that in some countries this advice is not necessary.

Apologies. I should have clarified. United States of America. I don't believe it's dysfunctional for this particular reason. There are for sure trade-offs between simplification & trying to optimize for the best outcome. A simpler tax code would be nice but then people on all sides of the political aisle would start saying we should really give X a break for Y reasons and that's how it seems to get complicated. There…

It’s not a crime if they don’t catch you. But ensure that your taxation system does not have rules about transfer pricing to expressly prevent tax avoidance.

The cheaper (with AI and automation) it gets for IRS to chase for transfer pricing violations, the more likely it is to get a fine.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#104
post #86

I tried freelance and realized I hate it more than any other type of programming work. I can tolerate being an employee where I do what I'm told. After a month I get a feel for the environment so it becomes low stress and then I can keep my head down programming. Or I can tolerate selling software or having a SaaS. If I'm CEO I decide the direction of the product and then just have to handle customer support. But the…

You should only have to do that in the beginning and strive to earn more so that you can hire an accountant or a firm to keep the booking and calculate your taxes for you. Invoicing is a matter of minutes and some apps even do it for free. Once you've set up your templates for each type of contract and document, you should be good to go. The only true problem in freelancing is generating new (good) leads. That's it.…

I’m personally happy I got married to a woman who has a CMA from the US... she does my accounting for me ;)

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#105
post #81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, such projects happen and it always surprises me - why can't such shops find in-house devs (with regular salaries) for such projects?

Sometimes average corporate developer just does not cut it. Like you've got a bunch who know how to take data from a database and feed it to web form. Ask them to do anything else and they would expect you to send them to a training courses. I've met quite a few shops like that. Meanwhile. This project required some imagination and multi-disciplinary knowledge. Sure the company have some geniuses but the company is h…

I've done freelancing and I'm currently developer on a corporation.

I've seen a lot of talent go in and out. Usually it goes out like this:

- PM is seeking resources internally, you could be reached out and be told on what they are trying to do. - The project can be complex or easy. Honestly it doesn't matter within the context of working for a company. As far freelancer, you can go on a nitty-gritty with the client on what it takes to do and justify your rates to them... for a already-hired developer:

- There's absolutely no guarantee they will incentivize you after all the efforts (working as a developer for a company). So it really doesn't matter if the project is super complex or not. Management is pretty stupid most of the time and they can't see the level of effort in things even if you break them out to them. Or they can simply be ignorant about it.

- I've said no. Usually I'm very driven with new challenges but I've learned the hard way that it doesn't matter at all. These days I just say "I don't know, sorry." and "yea I just never worked on that". I've seen people gone the road of talking about training courses so they could stall management a lot if they don't have many options.

Why? Because there's really no end goal. You are already hired within the company. Employers take for granted that that's reason enough for you to do it.

Honestly it could go many ways. Not all companies will be as awful as mine. If you are lucky enough to land with a company that recognizes your efforts and incentivizes you for it good for you. I don't think many people are that lucky.

I'd say, believe me there are quite a lot of geniuses, but I've yet to meet a fool that takes the bait of taking more complex work in without proper incentive. (excluding fresh graduates and those still in their starting years)

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#106
- Not forming an LLC: first gig was done as myself, in hindsight i could have been sued and had a judgement or bankruptcy hang over my personal head for 10 years (no assets back then, but you could lose your home if you own one. don't do it). Get an LLC, get a registered agent, get a PO box, get a bank account and a bank ledger. Money you want to spend from the business goes into the bank account as a deposit and comes out as a business check or business credit/debit purchase. If you spend on a personal CC, reimburse yourself from the business bank account. Don't pierce that veil.

- Closing the deal / Asking for the sale: Gave away waaaay too much work for free thinking it's advancing us to the point of the sale. Don't give away your work for free, not only does that lower your value in their eyes (people care when they pay for things) but you are ultimately,

- Undercharging: left money on the table like a fool not billing for "small things"

- Using my own ERP: no one uses whatever system you found on github, they use quickbooks. get that, export to whatever format your erp understands

- Paying taxes quarterly like a fool

- Forgetting I am a contractor: got a migraine? no meetings or deliverables? found a hot lead? DON'T GO TO THE CLIENT SITE

- Self-hosting the wrong tools trying to save a buck: Opensource gitlab is nice. Opensource gitlab is not nice when you need to troubleshoot why Postgres is spewing vacuum errors.

- Going SaaS with the wrong tools and hemorrhaging money between clients: Paying for heroku to host an app I can run in docker locally, paying for dropbox when google or onedrive is free, paying yearly on something only used twice a year.

- Not billing 2/10NET30 and not charging late fees: Get your money faster if you offer them a 2% discount if paid in 10 days instead of 30. If they pay after 30, they will be fees that will continue to be added until they are considered deliquent and then collections. I've also offered 5% on higher $ contracts

- Not having a contract or blindly accepting the clients contract: My business insurance discounts me if I execute using my contract. Without a contract spelling out requirements change procedures, it becomes a back and forth negotiation game in the middle of project crunch time. Don't do it, have an outlined process agreed to at the start of th engagement and use a bugtracker.

- Enforcing the contract consistently: If you require something in writing, make sure there is a paper trail. If you end up in court it makes your lawyers job that much easier and that much lighter on your pocket book. I just watched $200k fly out the window because writings were saved on the client controlled G Suite and there were a lot of verbal face-to-face handshake agreements. Always in writing, summarized from your regular business email address.

- Not growing: I'm in profit from this client. I should have another client lined up or two or three executing at the same time. I should hire someone to help me with that fourth client or to find the fifth client.

- Thinking you can land a USG contract: don't waste your time. Unless you want to suffer through the GSA, try to partner through an established firm instead. YMMV, but i'm done with the US public sector.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#108

I tried freelance and realized I hate it more than any other type of programming work. I can tolerate being an employee where I do what I'm told. After a month I get a feel for the environment so it becomes low stress and then I can keep my head down programming. Or I can tolerate selling software or having a SaaS. If I'm CEO I decide the direction of the product and then just have to handle customer support. But the…

I think there is a difference between contractor/freelance and consultant. With the latter the client bring you for a general expertise on a type of problem. They don’t care which tech you use (they usually have requirements on the hosting though) as long as you solve the problem for the agreed cost.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#109

I tried freelance and realized I hate it more than any other type of programming work. I can tolerate being an employee where I do what I'm told. After a month I get a feel for the environment so it becomes low stress and then I can keep my head down programming. Or I can tolerate selling software or having a SaaS. If I'm CEO I decide the direction of the product and then just have to handle customer support. But the…

I never had problems finding a job, but I was really bad at finding good clients. I especially hate, when I've been brought in for my expertise and I tell them what they should do with the least risk and best outcome and they refuse, because no. I realize there might be some important technical constraint I might not know about, but most of the time they just want to respect something their boss said once, some const…

This is why you should charge at least 12x more: 10x for the complexity and 2x extra to compensate your ego.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer?

#110
post #81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, such projects happen and it always surprises me - why can't such shops find in-house devs (with regular salaries) for such projects?

Sometimes average corporate developer just does not cut it. Like you've got a bunch who know how to take data from a database and feed it to web form. Ask them to do anything else and they would expect you to send them to a training courses. I've met quite a few shops like that. Meanwhile. This project required some imagination and multi-disciplinary knowledge. Sure the company have some geniuses but the company is h…

> Sometimes average corporate developer just does not cut it.

The thing is, it's not just some Kentucky Postal Service inc. but it is quite common in such BigCo's as Microsoft, Google, etc...

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