How “randomizers” are breathing new life into old games • Hacker News Board

Re: How “randomizers” are breathing new life into old games

#81

Post by mxwsn » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

BigJono wrote: post #65

mxwsn wrote: post #5

Randomizer speedruns are an awesome recent innovation in speedrunning, where the aim is to beat the game as quickly as possible (in a category called "true any%" [0]). For most popular speedrunning games, randomizers reward a completely different skillset than standard speedrunning. Typically, world record speedruns are a result of a community collaboration between theorizers, glitch finders, and routers, who devise…

That head to head bingo format sounds really cool. Do you have any good example VODs?

I'm partial to the Super Mario Sunshine lockout bingo played at AGDQ 2019: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch3eSzem1v4

Re: How “randomizers” are breathing new life into old games

#82

Post by Shish2k » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #54

wcarss wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Described in this way, it feels like a reasonable argument that humanity is like a paperclip-optimizing AI that just maybe just chooses random things to go deep on optimizing. We created a problem for ourselves that was fun -- games -- but once we'd beaten "games", the reward function kept running and now we're adversarially inventing new ways to "optimally" beat harder and harder versions of "games", ie new objectiv…

I was thinking of it like a mating display. Supposedly the goal of such a display is for the male animal to demonstrate its superior genes by wasting resources in a show of wealth, so it must purposely seek out something that is difficult or expensive to accomplish.

>> it feels like a reasonable argument that humanity is like a paperclip-optimizing AI

> I was thinking of it like a mating display.

What is "life", if not a paperclip-optimising AI applied to our own DNA?

Re: How “randomizers” are breathing new life into old games

#83

Post by slphil » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

deusofnull wrote: post #49

slphil wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, a lot of strong chess players do not enjoy playing Chess960 because we've already invested hundreds of hours into learning openings and how those openings transition into a middlegame. While it's certainly fair (position is the same for both sides), it gives positions which are almost impossible to evaluate. This is exciting for spectators, but for me it's excruciatingly nerve-wracking. I can't play it…

I spent hours going through this list on wiki of chess variants. are there any on there that sound compelling to you or less nerve racking? there are even historical variants I've heard of, like one from the mongolian empire where there were "fortress" squares that were immune from attack. theres also a gimick version that sounds fun called "atomic chess" where when a piece dies, it takes out surrounding squares. and…

I enjoy many chess variants. Atomic chess is quite fun (in 2012 or so a friend and I created an opening book to find forcing lines for White, where Black must know the correct line or lose by force). I have spent hundreds of hours playing bughouse, especially playing both boards against a normal team (which is a very fun way to play for stronger players). The difference is that none of these variants make a claim to be a replacement for normal chess. The seriousness of chess960 is exactly why I don't like it. Bughouse is not intended to be taken seriously.

Re: How “randomizers” are breathing new life into old games

#84

Post by dmurray » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 8:28 PM UTC

genera1 wrote: post #78

dmurray wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played a lot of chess variants of various levels of sophistication. Here's one due to a friend of mine that I've been enjoying recently: - normal chess, except you can't move the same piece your opponent just moved. So if I move a pawn, you must move a king/queen/bishop/rook/knight. - check and checkmate are as normal, no need to capture the king. It's checkmate if the only move that would stop check is to move…

Castling is a king move in regular chess

In regular chess it's incidental. It only comes up in relation to the touch-move rule and similar rules. And even there it's given special treatment: if you touch your king, then your rook, you must castle on that side if it's legal, instead of making any other legal king move.

In this variant, whether castling is considered a king move or a rook move or both has an effect on which moves are legal, so it needs to be spelt out.

Re: How “randomizers” are breathing new life into old games

#85

Post by kupppo » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 11:58 PM UTC

For those asking about how randomizer logic works to ensure that the game is still playable, you can have a look at the Super Metroid randomizer logic.

https://github.com/tewtal/itemrandomizerweb

The randomizer logic, depending on difficulty level selected, will ensure that certain items are available and the game is still playable. There are lots of different checks like this to compensate for various techniques, sequences, etc.

One common technique in Super Metroid is called "hell running", which means getting through the heated rooms of Upper Norfair without Varia Suit, an item that provides protection against heat. In "Casual" mode, the randomizer requires that you are given this protection before making you go to these areas. In "Hard" mode, the randomizer requires you have either 3 Energy Tanks or Varia Suit.