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A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

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Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#711

Post by robbiep »

konradb wrote: post #595
robbiep wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The danger with this type of response is that it’s perfectly reasonable, but it’s also sociopathic. I’m an emergency room doctor (part of the time). Due to the advantages I had of birth, gender, country of origin etc, I live a great life, most of which has been because I took every advantage; cf. many of my peers from school who squandered it. I also work in emergency departments, in a country where anyone can come t…

When you say slicing the Gordian Knot (and fixing the lack of agency), what would be some examples?

You may have experienced this but being an outsider sometimes allows ‘clear’ perspectives on optier people’s issues.

Ie a person in a relationship with someone clearly toxic. Or experiencing domestic abuse. The external answer is ‘leave’, the person doesn’t.

The obese patient - walk, change diet.

The representing twenty year old with third presentation cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome - pretty much every time you smoke pot you are going to experience abdominal pain and vomiting, you cannot smoke! How are you not getting the message!

The person spending 5 hours on a bus to work 2 shifts... ?? Is this a rational choice?

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#712

Post by soulofmischief »

cixter wrote: post #654
soulofmischief wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when your whole existence revolves around just getting to work and back, is it fair of us to require people to have the horizon and insight to understand how to progress their situation? The implication is that I expect people of reasonable intelligence to do whatever, and I mean whatever, they have to do within ethical boundaries in order to increase their economic opportunities. I don't need a crash course in the h…

How about people without "reasonable intelligence"? Do they deserve the hardships of perpetual poverty? Why should genes and a genetic lottery decide if you can live a decent life or not?

It is up to successful people and organizations to care for those who cannot provide for themselves, and up to our government to enforce this. I am not a free market capitalist and I believe in UBI.

But we're only here to discuss those who are capable, and why it is they might not be taking advantage of upward mobility.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#713

Post by soulofmischief »

bradlys wrote: post #694
oarsinsync wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies, I misread your statement, and my response was overly broad. This is my mistake. I may also have not been sufficiently clear in my messaging. I am talking from the perspective of someone born and raised in a "first world" western developed democracy similar in many ways to the USA (in this instance, the UK). > I am immensely privileged to have had the amount of support I have had. The intent here is to driv…

> My relative financial poverty during my upbringing doesn't change any of that. I still attribute my success to my upbringing. Not the (lack of) money, and not myself. And some have neither money or the good upbringing. I was privileged enough to have parents who were able to keep a full-time job (even if it was a minimum wage one) most of my life. However, I would say mine were wildly poor on every other front. In…

I think one large motivator for me has been organizational theory: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

I am either a bargainer, a clueless, or a sociopath (in the context of organization). I will never be a bargainer, life is too short! I'm not clueless and middle management is not for me. Only one path left.

I reached this decision through information like this. Perhaps Ms. Brown needed something similar.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#714

Post by yahwrong »

systemtest wrote: post #582
cixter wrote: post #577

Coming from Norway, this article is horrendous. I can never understand the mentality that lies behind all of the arguments most you guys are presenting here - defending the employers shit salary and rights. You guys know that McDonalds manages to run in countries with decent wages as well, right? And that maybe a company with a yearly global profit of over 10 billion dollars might be able to afford giving their emplo…

I'm not from Norway but the Netherlands. If you have a fulltime job at McDonalds, the only way to live on that wage is with heavy subsidies from the government. You will need healthcare subsidy, rent subsidy, social housing, various municipal arrangements and perhaps even go to the "voedselbank" (food bank, free food charity). So while you can live on a McDonalds income, it's only because your fellow citizens are chi…

It's the same in the U.S. except you have to qualify and jump through a bunch of hoops to get assistance. And the pay is shit that you can't live off of.

i.e. in the u.s. you get fucked from both ends.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#715

Post by dragonwriter »

systemtest wrote: post #582
cixter wrote: post #577

Coming from Norway, this article is horrendous. I can never understand the mentality that lies behind all of the arguments most you guys are presenting here - defending the employers shit salary and rights. You guys know that McDonalds manages to run in countries with decent wages as well, right? And that maybe a company with a yearly global profit of over 10 billion dollars might be able to afford giving their emplo…

I'm not from Norway but the Netherlands. If you have a fulltime job at McDonalds, the only way to live on that wage is with heavy subsidies from the government. You will need healthcare subsidy, rent subsidy, social housing, various municipal arrangements and perhaps even go to the "voedselbank" (food bank, free food charity). So while you can live on a McDonalds income, it's only because your fellow citizens are chi…

> So while you can live on a McDonalds income, it's only because your fellow citizens are chipping in. Effectively we are subsidising McDonalds as they can now give you a lower income and get away with it.

No, before social support networks of the modern mixed economy companies paid worse for basically unskilled jobs. The surplus of people desperate for work meant that if the pay was better than no job but inadequate for survival in the long term, people would still take it, and if the inadequate pay meant they died or became unable to work, well, there were always more people in the surplus labor pool to replace them.

Decreasing the desperate need for employment puts more power in the hands of labor, not capital.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#716

Post by inoop »

systemtest wrote: post #582
cixter wrote: post #577

Coming from Norway, this article is horrendous. I can never understand the mentality that lies behind all of the arguments most you guys are presenting here - defending the employers shit salary and rights. You guys know that McDonalds manages to run in countries with decent wages as well, right? And that maybe a company with a yearly global profit of over 10 billion dollars might be able to afford giving their emplo…

I'm not from Norway but the Netherlands. If you have a fulltime job at McDonalds, the only way to live on that wage is with heavy subsidies from the government. You will need healthcare subsidy, rent subsidy, social housing, various municipal arrangements and perhaps even go to the "voedselbank" (food bank, free food charity). So while you can live on a McDonalds income, it's only because your fellow citizens are chi…

Dutchie in NYC here. Dude(ette), I hear you, things aren't perfect back home. But frankly, you have no idea how much better things are for the low age earners in the Netherlands compared to the US. Working at a FAANG company here in NYC, you get 200-400k/year, and you use that money to pay thousands of dollars to live in a nice area in a building without rats and cockroaches and with proper sound proofing, which qualifies as luxury here.

And then you go to stand in line at the local wholefoods to buy $2.5 local chocolate croissants and $2 kombuchas from a teller who earns $15/hour.

Tip well, my friends, tip well.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#717

Post by sjy »

scarface74 wrote: post #704
sjy wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is whataboutism. Believing that businesses who can’t afford to pay their staff a living wage shouldn’t exist doesn’t entail any position on the issue of unprofitable tech companies.

Why not? Left to their own devices they couldn’t afford to pay their employees anything. The mom and pop shop can’t get millions of dollars thrown at them because they “pattern match” what a successful founder “looks like” without a business plan. They actually have to be profitable.

Suppose that this was fixed, and tech companies had to be profitable to stay in business, like mom and pop shops. Would that do anything to improve the circumstances of the McDonald’s worker described in this article?

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#718

Post by soulofmischief »

timwaagh wrote: post #681
soulofmischief wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we increase intelligence over time? Purely mutational, or do you believe it can be passed down epigenetically similarly to weight?

I don't know whether we do increase in intelligence anymore there are problems that increase in the most intelligent populations that might put a limit on it. As to whether some part of intelligence can be accounted for with epigenetics I'd bet on it as it's a complex trait but you'd have to ask a researcher.

At least for now, we can still optimize information density and distribution. We stand on the shoulders of giants, but we need a way to get more people onto their shoulders so that someone else might stand on ours.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#719

Post by soulofmischief »

natalyarostova wrote: post #670
quaice wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence has very little to do with the majority. Geographical location, overall family health, education, peer pressure, inherited ignorance... These are all things that can put people at a great disadvantage. It's easy to cast judgment with little to no intimate knowledge of these people and situations. It's even easier to think oneself better than others when you can't recognize your own privileges. It's easy…

I’m not judging anyone. Judgement is a moral action. I’m recognizing the self evident truth that for many people they fundamentally lack the ability to plan and take care of themselves properly or thoughtfully with regard to the long run. It’s not about thinking we’re better than them — which is an ambiguous moral statement. It’s recognizing we have a substantially greater ability than them and viewing that as a resp…

I guess people may have found your presentation abrasive, but it was just blunt. I wouldn't call most people stupid. In fact, most people are of average intelligence and by definition are not stupid. We can't be overreaching in our expectation of the mental prowess of evolved apes, everything is relative.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#720

Post by soulofmischief »

danans wrote: post #693
soulofmischief wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make bad decisions every day. How does that have to do with anything? Ms. Brown has had 14 years to come up with a career trajectory. I don't think she has ever bothered in that time to visit a career consultant after realizing she couldn't figure it out on her own. Random fluctuations in decision quality average out over time to reveal a smooth function of decision-making prowess.

> I make bad decisions every day. I'm not talking about daily bad decisions. I'm talking about things like: failing a college course needed for my degree program because of a bout of depression, but having parents who would pay for me to take the class again to pass it. I did that. A lot of people with professional parents have done that. The poor and the working poor don't have that kind of safety net. The personal…

If you are poor, you don't have the option to fail. That's the reality. So you simply don't. You rise above the rest with determination. You don't drop out if you're determined because dips in your mental health come second to your success.

Just last week I had someone explode on me Thanksgiving night and physically assault me for a prolonged period of time, while saying things about my poverty and how I was born in poverty and would die in poverty, and trying to blame me for every bad thing that has happened in my life.

This is a person who has been to jail twice for federal property damage and a DUI, who has had several cars given to him by his parents, and who had to resort to a contract with the military in order to straighten himself out. He couldn't hold a job for the longest time and would steal from everyone around him. His parents have helped him again, and again, and again, while mine were just not there.

When a meth-dealing police officer who often stalked my friends and I planted drugs on me at the scene of an accident, I didn't have parents to back me up. Probably a dozen friends who had a parent that was a lawyer, but no one offered to help. I was railroaded by the system and received the maximum possible incarceration time. It didn't matter that I had witness testimony; I didn't have money.

So I am aware of how a socioeconomic safety net works. I am aware of the classist mentalities which keep these systems in place. If you aren't going to provide meaningful anecdotal data or answer my question, then please refrain from giving me a crash course in socioeconomics like the other couple dozen posters who beat you to the punch.

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