Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. This is a very naive and unrealistic take. In a world where nations like Russia and China are willing to play dirty to encroach on western democracies, you cannot simply counter by playing fair. Where do you think…
If you play dirty with your friends you will lose them, this isn't naive its the cold reality of relationships, co-operation requires trust and thats a hard requirement.
Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
261–270 of 275 posts
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems extremely strange to me to think that the primary purpose of a company would be to pay income taxes to a country (as seems to be implied by the question of whether they’re useful if they don’t). A company that doesn’t pay income taxes can still provide useful services to consumers, provide employment and purpose for workers, and those workers will pay income tax and employer will pay payroll taxes.
I guess I'm thinking that the primary purpose of a company is to make money - and the primary way in which this leads to social utility is through taxes. Obviously, some companies provide useful and socially beneficial services, but many (most?) do not, or even provide socially destructive services (e.g. tobacco industry). Even in the case where they do provide social utility through their products, it strikes me tha…
The social utility of making money lies in the fact that in order to persuade people to give you money you have to satisfy their wants and needs. Taxation has nothing to do with it.
The social utility of taxation lies entirely in the proposition that the government can better decide how that money should be spent than the people that earned it. It is unclear that this "utility" is actually positive when considering the system as a whole. (The proceeds of theft obviously benefit the thief, but when you consider the cost to the victim as well it turns out to be a net loss.)
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess I'm thinking that the primary purpose of a company is to make money - and the primary way in which this leads to social utility is through taxes. Obviously, some companies provide useful and socially beneficial services, but many (most?) do not, or even provide socially destructive services (e.g. tobacco industry). Even in the case where they do provide social utility through their products, it strikes me tha…
> I guess I'm thinking that the primary purpose of a company is to make money - and the primary way in which this leads to social utility is through taxes. The social utility of making money lies in the fact that in order to persuade people to give you money you have to satisfy their wants and needs. Taxation has nothing to do with it. The social utility of taxation lies entirely in the proposition that the governmen…
I don't think this is true at all, even if we accept that all wants and needs are good ones (opiods, for instance). I pay a substantial portion of my income in rent. That's not because my landlord is satisfying my wants or needs. Far from it. Actually, he's the most miserable, difficult person I regularly have to deal with. However, because land is a natural monopoly, I have to suck it up. There are many, many companies that work like this.
The social utility of taxation is simply that in a democracy, the people can decide what they need. Notable achievements of this system include stuff like courts, roads, and (in some countries) efficient, affordable healthcare.
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I guess I'm thinking that the primary purpose of a company is to make money - and the primary way in which this leads to social utility is through taxes. The social utility of making money lies in the fact that in order to persuade people to give you money you have to satisfy their wants and needs. Taxation has nothing to do with it. The social utility of taxation lies entirely in the proposition that the governmen…
>you have to satisfy their wants and needs I don't think this is true at all, even if we accept that all wants and needs are good ones (opiods, for instance). I pay a substantial portion of my income in rent. That's not because my landlord is satisfying my wants or needs. Far from it. Actually, he's the most miserable, difficult person I regularly have to deal with. However, because land is a natural monopoly, I have…
If you don't need or want shelter then why are you paying the rent? Clearly the landlord is providing something of value to you.
> The social utility of taxation is simply that in a democracy, the people can decide what they need.
Nonsense. People can decide what they need perfectly well in the absence of taxation. It isn't a prerequisite for fair arbitration, travel, or health care either—all of these things have at one point or another been provided without any government involvement whatsoever.
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
>you have to satisfy their wants and needs I don't think this is true at all, even if we accept that all wants and needs are good ones (opiods, for instance). I pay a substantial portion of my income in rent. That's not because my landlord is satisfying my wants or needs. Far from it. Actually, he's the most miserable, difficult person I regularly have to deal with. However, because land is a natural monopoly, I have…
> I pay a substantial portion of my income in rent. That's not because my landlord is satisfying my wants or needs. If you don't need or want shelter then why are you paying the rent? Clearly the landlord is providing something of value to you. > The social utility of taxation is simply that in a democracy, the people can decide what they need. Nonsense. People can decide what they need perfectly well in the absence…
People wouldn't mind free market radicalism so much if they were restricted to just those things in which a free market is possible. Otherwise, you can enjoy deciding which broadband provider you're going to choose, when there's only one set of cables serving your region - or any of the other great 'decisions' you can make when confronted with monopoly.
Or, you can nationalize, and give monopolies to an organization precisely designed to manage monopolies (primarily the monopoly on violence) in a way that's more or less livable.
We're straying away from the point here, though. I think it's obviously possible for companies to exist that serve no good whatsoever. Companies exist to make money. Unless there's an apriori link between some people making money and universal good that I'm unaware of, there's no way you can step around that. Therefore, making taxes zero will always be an unfair deal for some people - since there will be some companies that contribute nothing, and yet use resources and services provided by the government.
Obviously, you could have a mad-max style anarcho-capitalist system, or something, then all my concerns would be void, but probably soon, all your concerns would be too - and all of your neighbors, except that guy Benno, with the gun collection.
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd like to encourage you to look into some history books and current newspapers.
You're making quite a few assumptions, there. I'll disregard the ad hominem and wait patiently for recent examples of what you're referring to. By recent, I'm willing to accept things in the past 30 years. Again, exclude France, the UK and Russia.
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. I'm sorry, but which of those do European nations not engage in as well?
Whataboutisms don't matter but if it makes you feel better: > We wrote the game Americans are playing
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#268I think taxes is already so high that half of person earnings goes to retards in government. Why do we pay taxes? I know many people that have close to 0 benefits from government. I would propose all governments to make taxes 5% or 10% and remove themselves from governing.
> Why do we pay taxes? I know many people that have close to 0 benefits from government. I guess they never use roads, the electric grid, the police, garbage collection, don't call the fire brigade when their house is on fire, just assume the country is protected from foreign invaders, don't need a hospital when they're ill, clean up their own roads, plant their own parks, etc, etc. Bullshit.
You posted the link in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9890599 a few years back but sadly it is dead now. I am a hobbyist interested in cryptography (and a fan of chacha) and so when I saw the "AEAD design similar to ChaCha, that was doing 1.5 cpb authenticated encryption" I got excited.
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might not have children but you do benefit from other people having children, just because you don't "take" as much as you're paying doesn't mean you don't indirectly benefit from the effects it has on society.
Sure, I agree, but it's hard to imagine the multiplier for the 'externalities' is 2x or greater. Singapore is not some horrific hellscape where I couldn't live as I do here. Nor is Hong Kong (present situation there not being due to lack of tax revenue). They're educated (perhaps even better than in the UK), healthcare would be accessible to me, infrastructure is good. Heck, Singapore even has a massive public housin…
Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why do we pay taxes? I know many people that have close to 0 benefits from government. I guess they never use roads, the electric grid, the police, garbage collection, don't call the fire brigade when their house is on fire, just assume the country is protected from foreign invaders, don't need a hospital when they're ill, clean up their own roads, plant their own parks, etc, etc. Bullshit.
Sorry for being offtopic but I did not see an email in your profile. Would you by any chance happen to have this pdf? http://www.liacs.nl/~opeters/orlein.pdf You posted the link in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9890599 a few years back but sadly it is dead now. I am a hobbyist interested in cryptography (and a fan of chacha) and so when I saw the "AEAD design similar to ChaCha, that was doing 1.5 cpb authentic…
That said, the design of the mode of operation was quite elegant and efficient. Assuming you are familiar with the field, it consisted of taking the core of BLAKE2 as a tweakable secure PRP, with an important modification.
The core's 10 rounds was split in two sequences of 5 rounds, that transform plaintext to midstate to ciphertext and similarly from ciphertext to midstate to plaintext. We called those alpha and beta, so E(x) = beta(alpha(x)).
Roughly, each block of plaintext or authenticated data was processed using an always uniquely tweaked blockcipher. We took the the midstates of processing those blocks, XOR'd them together and encrypted the resulting block to get our MAC t. The tweaks also contained the AD and message length (through lambda_A and lambda_M respectively), so length extension/contraction attacks were defeated.
Visually encryption looked like this (you can ignore the subscripts, they were designed so that they were always unique for each invocation): https://i.imgur.com/FZCaYvf.png And decryption: https://i.imgur.com/hkBsqMn.png
The advantage of this scheme was that the authentication portion didn't require any additional primitives or crypto code, and was blazing fast. Furthermore, you only needed to do half of the computational load (for long messages) to verify that a message is genuine compared to fully decrypting the message. Finally the whole scheme is embarrassingly parallel - each block is independent from all others.
That said, only the reduced computational load for verifying isn't enough to offset choosing it over OCB3, which is very similar, and is proven secure.