Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says • Hacker News Board

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#31

Post by BucketSort » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

_jal wrote: post #13

BucketSort wrote: post #9

In addition to government interference in free speech, all actions/words that offend have potentially life devastating consequences in this age of the digital permanent record. Suppose you slap someone in a moment of uncontrolled anger. If someone records that, posts it on the internet, and it goes viral, you then become the mad slapper in the eyes of the world. If someone googles your name, they will see you slappin…

The behavior isn't new, just the reach and visibility. Conformist social pressure has always been intense. Previously, it was just very local and not visible outside the social context in which it happened. People didn't notice it (or if they did, would tend to approve of it) unless it was focused on them.

Yes, there has always been a social layer to regulating behavior. In this sense, the world has almost become one village where you cannot escape your social offences, no matter where you go on earth. Also, a video or archive of a tweet doesn't fade. So I would say the visibility, reach, and permanence of one's offences is something new, or at least has reached a new unprecedented level.

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#32

Post by a_band » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #17

BucketSort wrote: post #9

In addition to government interference in free speech, all actions/words that offend have potentially life devastating consequences in this age of the digital permanent record. Suppose you slap someone in a moment of uncontrolled anger. If someone records that, posts it on the internet, and it goes viral, you then become the mad slapper in the eyes of the world. If someone googles your name, they will see you slappin…

We need to declare all speech religious speech. Politics is religion. One religion currently has the upper hand, and it's dividing people.

What would such a declaration do? Religious speech should be protected as much as any other speech.

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#33

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #12

Reedx wrote: post #7

>"...the desire to have someone force these companies to remove hate speech or misinformation can backfire. To see how, we need look no further than Singapore’s new “fake news” law, which has already been used to force an opposition politician to modify a Facebook post to include the government’s position on the topic he mentioned in his post, along with a large banner across the original saying “False.” This is so o…

Constitutional rights don't matter for people if parties with vast economic power can render the exercise of those rights pointless. Most people absolutely will trade freedom for security, because most people aren't late 1700's frontiersman that hunt for food, defend land from intruders, huddle together in a rickety log cabin built with their own two hands, and die before they're 40. Most people that aren't the elite…

[deleted]

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#34

Post by oefrha » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

manifestsilence wrote: post #26

Ididntdothis wrote: post #8

Even when governments don’t limit freedom of expression we do it to ourselves as can be seen with all the Twitter mobs.

It's such an important distinction though. When people do it, it's just dissenting voices. When a platform removes someone, they can just find another platform. Twitter doesn't owe anyone a voice on it. But when the government says you can't talk about a thing, they can make you take it down everywhere. Only this is protected, and this line needs to not be crossed. I little sympathy for people getting upset at being…

When you have your career destroyed by voicing a non-pc opinion, it’s a lot more complicated than finding another Twitter to post 140 character posts.

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#35

Post by manifestsilence » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #29

BucketSort wrote: post #9

In addition to government interference in free speech, all actions/words that offend have potentially life devastating consequences in this age of the digital permanent record. Suppose you slap someone in a moment of uncontrolled anger. If someone records that, posts it on the internet, and it goes viral, you then become the mad slapper in the eyes of the world. If someone googles your name, they will see you slappin…

Maybe you shouldn't assault people if you don't want to be known for assault? Slap or not, hitting someone in a fit of anger is assault, full stop. Even people which have been 'cancelled' for things that aren't assault still end up going on to have their career mostly unaffected unless they did something really henious.

True. And "cancel culture" has always been the way things are. It's nothing new. It's just we used to "cancel" people for things like being gay or socialist. No one likes to be on the unpopular side of the social spectrum, but then again, no one is guaranteed a platform or an audience, only the right to speak to those who will listen willingly.

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#36

Post by downerending » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #11

Reedx wrote: post #7

>"...the desire to have someone force these companies to remove hate speech or misinformation can backfire. To see how, we need look no further than Singapore’s new “fake news” law, which has already been used to force an opposition politician to modify a Facebook post to include the government’s position on the topic he mentioned in his post, along with a large banner across the original saying “False.” This is so o…

It's the goal. Those seeking it would be advised to consider whether it's a power they really want Trump to have, or his successor, but there's a lot of people who seem to operate on the presumption that in the long term, their side is going to have complete control of the government indefinitely and the fact that some people they disagree with has some control at the moment is a momentary aberration. I would suggest…

You can like Trump or not, but he's probably one of the people in power who'd least care for this sort of censorship. He clearly revels in public debate, perhaps even to an unhealthy degree. It may not be Lincoln-Douglas stuff, but that's how democracy is supposed to work.

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#37

Post by namirez » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #8

Even when governments don’t limit freedom of expression we do it to ourselves as can be seen with all the Twitter mobs.

I keep hearing this kind of sentiment a lot recently. Not that I have any sympathy for the Twitter mobs, but there is a huge difference between government-sanctioned "legal" censorship, and some unorganized group of trolls harassing someone on Twitter.

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#38

Post by arp242 » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

10 years is a very short period of time for these kind of things. How does it rate on a 50 or 100 year timescale? I'd wager we're still miles ahead of, say, the 1950s, when you could be arrested for being too "communist", or prosecuted for blasphemy or indecency for things that are very normal today.

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#39

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

_jal wrote: post #13

BucketSort wrote: post #9

In addition to government interference in free speech, all actions/words that offend have potentially life devastating consequences in this age of the digital permanent record. Suppose you slap someone in a moment of uncontrolled anger. If someone records that, posts it on the internet, and it goes viral, you then become the mad slapper in the eyes of the world. If someone googles your name, they will see you slappin…

The behavior isn't new, just the reach and visibility. Conformist social pressure has always been intense. Previously, it was just very local and not visible outside the social context in which it happened. People didn't notice it (or if they did, would tend to approve of it) unless it was focused on them.

[deleted]

Re: Freedom of expression is at a ten-year low globally, study says

#40

Post by BucketSort » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #29

BucketSort wrote: post #9

In addition to government interference in free speech, all actions/words that offend have potentially life devastating consequences in this age of the digital permanent record. Suppose you slap someone in a moment of uncontrolled anger. If someone records that, posts it on the internet, and it goes viral, you then become the mad slapper in the eyes of the world. If someone googles your name, they will see you slappin…

Maybe you shouldn't assault people if you don't want to be known for assault? Slap or not, hitting someone in a fit of anger is assault, full stop. Even people which have been 'cancelled' for things that aren't assault still end up going on to have their career mostly unaffected unless they did something really henious.

People aren't perfect. I don't think anyone commits a crime after performing a full calculation of the consequences. I think you demonstrate an important trend with your comment. The desire to label things and ignore circumstances. It appears to me that people don't want to think about the nuances of things; they just want to simplify all thought to some label level where conclusions are easily made.