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China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

theguardian.com

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Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#91

Post by im3w1l »

xvedejas wrote: post #85
smallgovt wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But worst case, we can eliminate harmful mutations from being passed on to subsequent generations through screening Are you suggesting that we should prohibit these babies from reproducing when they reach adulthood? If not, how do you suggest we prevent harmful mutations from being passed on with "screening"?

Adults only pass on half of their genes during reproduction. I imagine at least in the case of in vitro fertilization there's a fair amount you can do to make sure the harmful genes aren't the ones passed along, so long as the parent doesn't have two copies of an autosomal dominant harmful mutation. I wouldn't be surprised if more advanced methods exist either; as a carrier for a rare genetic disease maybe I should f…

"There are two types of screening that can be carried out as part of the IVF process. Preimplantation genetic test for aneuploidies (PGT-A) screens for any chromosomal abnormalities that may be present, while other preimplantation genetic tests (PGT) checks for specific conditions such as Down’s syndrome, Huntington’s disease and muscular dystrophy, among others. In fact PGT can now be used with IVF to test for nearly 400 rare genetic conditions, including cystic fibrosis and early-onset Alzheimer’s."

https://blog.ivf.com.au/embryo-screening

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#92

Post by PhasmaFelis »

im3w1l wrote: post #72
vannevar wrote: post #8

It seems like a dead certainty that gene editing creates unintended mutations, since to do otherwise would require the technique to be 100% controllable and verifiable, and it is neither. So the only question is whether those unintended mutations are harmful or not, either to the immediate generation or subsequent ones. Because there is so much uncertainty around that question, these kinds of experiments are ethicall…

Random harmful mutations have happened all day every day as long as life has existed. We are basically designed for dealing with it. But worst case, we can eliminate harmful mutations from being passed on to subsequent generations through screening. I wouldn't worry about the long term problems of that, it's fairly easy to solve. What I would worry about is: a) Short term suffering from failed experiments. b) Reduced…

> Short term suffering from failed experiments.

By "short term" you mean "only until the kids die of their mutations"?

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#93

Post by PhasmaFelis »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #77
im3w1l wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random harmful mutations have happened all day every day as long as life has existed. We are basically designed for dealing with it. But worst case, we can eliminate harmful mutations from being passed on to subsequent generations through screening. I wouldn't worry about the long term problems of that, it's fairly easy to solve. What I would worry about is: a) Short term suffering from failed experiments. b) Reduced…

> we can eliminate harmful mutations from being passed on to subsequent generations through screening. And the truly bad mutations should self-correct before passing to subsequent generations.

> And the truly bad mutations should self-correct before passing to subsequent generations.

That's an awfully euphemistic way to say "The kids'll die before they grow up."

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#94

Post by PhasmaFelis »

infinity0 wrote: post #13

Unintended mutations happen all the time naturally. Some are beneficial, and some are harmful. This just speeds up the process a bit. Life has natural processes to error-correct, otherwise it would not have survived for millions of years.

> * This just speeds up the process a bit.*

You can't make an omelet without killing a few kids.

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#95

Post by wahern »

im3w1l wrote: post #91
xvedejas wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adults only pass on half of their genes during reproduction. I imagine at least in the case of in vitro fertilization there's a fair amount you can do to make sure the harmful genes aren't the ones passed along, so long as the parent doesn't have two copies of an autosomal dominant harmful mutation. I wouldn't be surprised if more advanced methods exist either; as a carrier for a rare genetic disease maybe I should f…

"There are two types of screening that can be carried out as part of the IVF process. Preimplantation genetic test for aneuploidies (PGT-A) screens for any chromosomal abnormalities that may be present, while other preimplantation genetic tests (PGT) checks for specific conditions such as Down’s syndrome, Huntington’s disease and muscular dystrophy, among others. In fact PGT can now be used with IVF to test for nearl…

Many chromosomal abnormalities can be reliably detected at 10 weeks into a pregnancy, if not earlier. 10 weeks is well within the window at which many if not most women would be comfortable terminating. In California these tests are required to be covered by insurance for at-risk women (i.e. 38 and older, etc).

I imagine at some point these tests, as well as more precise ones, are likely to become standard procedure for all pregnancies, in California and everywhere else.

EDIT: I mean comfortable as in willing; not comfortable as in "whatevs".

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#96

Post by refurb »

infinity0 wrote: post #13

Unintended mutations happen all the time naturally. Some are beneficial, and some are harmful. This just speeds up the process a bit. Life has natural processes to error-correct, otherwise it would not have survived for millions of years.

By that same logic we shouldn’t care about radiation exposure.

We’re just speeding up the process a bit.

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#97

Post by adrianN »

im3w1l wrote: post #72
vannevar wrote: post #8

It seems like a dead certainty that gene editing creates unintended mutations, since to do otherwise would require the technique to be 100% controllable and verifiable, and it is neither. So the only question is whether those unintended mutations are harmful or not, either to the immediate generation or subsequent ones. Because there is so much uncertainty around that question, these kinds of experiments are ethicall…

Random harmful mutations have happened all day every day as long as life has existed. We are basically designed for dealing with it. But worst case, we can eliminate harmful mutations from being passed on to subsequent generations through screening. I wouldn't worry about the long term problems of that, it's fairly easy to solve. What I would worry about is: a) Short term suffering from failed experiments. b) Reduced…

I wouldn't worry so much about reduced diversity. Once we're good enough at creating genetically manipulated babies we can recover any diversity we want in one generation.

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#99

Post by im3w1l »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #92
im3w1l wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random harmful mutations have happened all day every day as long as life has existed. We are basically designed for dealing with it. But worst case, we can eliminate harmful mutations from being passed on to subsequent generations through screening. I wouldn't worry about the long term problems of that, it's fairly easy to solve. What I would worry about is: a) Short term suffering from failed experiments. b) Reduced…

> Short term suffering from failed experiments. By "short term" you mean "only until the kids die of their mutations"?

Well I was thinking more along the lines of disabilities, weakness and abnormalities, but I guess death too.

Re: China gene-edited baby experiment 'may have created unintended mutations'

#100

Post by Fjolsvith »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #93
Fjolsvith wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can eliminate harmful mutations from being passed on to subsequent generations through screening. And the truly bad mutations should self-correct before passing to subsequent generations.

> And the truly bad mutations should self-correct before passing to subsequent generations. That's an awfully euphemistic way to say "The kids'll die before they grow up."

I didn't want to say, "Survival of the fittest."
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