A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier • Hacker News Board

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#411

Post by taurath » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

formercoder wrote: post #409

scarface74 wrote: post #376

This by far not a popular opinion, but some jobs aren’t worth $15 an hour. We shouldn’t force social policy on private corporations. Sure she needs more than $9.15/hour to live as an adult and pay for insurance but a teenager staying at home doesn’t. I am strong believer in a social safety net but I think that should be the role of government. She shouldn’t have to depend on private corporations for insurance, that s…

This is a capex vs opex question. Raise minimum wage enough and firms cross the border to investing in capex such that they replace employees.

If they’re on the fence already, then they should be doing it. A few hundred dollars a day means next to nothing to McDonald’s, and everything to the workers. Don’t hold the threat of automation over them, if it’s gonna happen rip the bandaid off.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#412

Post by taurath » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #393

URSpider94 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a counter-argument: if people are taking jobs that don't cover their cost of living, and the government is having to step in to subsidize them, then that's effectively a subsidy from the government to the company's bottom line. In general, we Americans believe in the free market, but we also believe that we need limits on what people can legally contract for. For example, we don't let people sell organs. We do…

It’s not the role of every job to provide a livable income. How many people on HN wouldn’t have a job at all if their company wasn’t subsidized by VCs? There was an article posted here a few months ago that the average 7/11 owner makes $35K a year and that’s with them putting in 60+ hour weeks. Most small business owners aren’t getting rich. Actually, I wouldn’t be completely opposed to abolishing the minimum wage an…

> It’s not the role of every job to provide a livable income.

It’s the role of the economy for someone to get a livable income if that’s what they’re seeking. If it’s not working then it needs a nudge.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#413

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

CharlesColeman wrote: post #110

threatofrain wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By tech fantasy are we talking about the kiosks which are already providing a value-add to customers? Similarly, sometimes when I see a restaurant use Yelp for check-in, reservations, and queue management, I imagine that's a sizable fraction of a job.

> By tech fantasy are we talking about the kiosks which are already providing a value-add to customers? No, we're talking about the making and packaging diverse types of food to order. That's why people go to McDonalds, and it's something that's surprisingly difficult to automate. McDonalds workers will be able to strike effectively as long as that's true. Also, I don't consider ordering kiosks a value add for a cust…

[deleted]

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#414

Post by monoideism » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:14 AM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #294

monoideism wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the privileged and the poor seem to enjoy abusing service workers at about the same rate in my experience. Agreed. When I worked retail and waiting jobs, I got grief from both out-of-touch wealthy people, and bitter poor people (although there were also kind people from both of those categories).

Then you were lucky. Myself, and I suspect most people, I got grief from everyone . Poor. Middle Class. Wealthy. Those with accents. Those without accents. White. Black. Tall. Short. You name it. It's brutal if you have to work such jobs for a long time. (Like say, throughout high school and college.) A lot of people out there turn terrible as soon as they interact someone of lower status providing them a service. Ev…

Please re-read my comment, because your response came across quite poorly. I didn't say I only got grief from a few people (quite the contrary!). Clearly you read into it what you wanted. Here's the gist of your response, without knowing anything about me or my background:

- "you were lucky."

- "thank your lucky stars"

- "You got off easy"

- "It's brutal if you have to work such jobs for a long time"

I worked retail, bused tables, and waited for almost 3 years full-time, and I'm certainly not claiming to have only gotten grief from a few people. I never said anything even remotely close to "few people" in my comment. I suggested that there was a trend to the people I got grief from, in agreement to the GP comment. Note: a trend, not an absolute cut-off.

In addition to the comment I was responding to, there are other comments in this thread making similar assertions, so I'm not the outlier here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21717225

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#415

Post by Fomite » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:15 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #393

URSpider94 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a counter-argument: if people are taking jobs that don't cover their cost of living, and the government is having to step in to subsidize them, then that's effectively a subsidy from the government to the company's bottom line. In general, we Americans believe in the free market, but we also believe that we need limits on what people can legally contract for. For example, we don't let people sell organs. We do…

It’s not the role of every job to provide a livable income. How many people on HN wouldn’t have a job at all if their company wasn’t subsidized by VCs? There was an article posted here a few months ago that the average 7/11 owner makes $35K a year and that’s with them putting in 60+ hour weeks. Most small business owners aren’t getting rich. Actually, I wouldn’t be completely opposed to abolishing the minimum wage an…

"How many people on HN wouldn’t have a job at all if their company wasn’t subsidized by VCs?"

VCs aren't taxpayers. We're not getting equity or an upside in McDonalds paying below poverty wages.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#416

Post by nlfwhulsdhouv » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:17 AM UTC

beachy wrote: post #367

jniedrauer wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teams suffer tremendously when they are forced to include lazy people. You get the additional Mythical-Man-Month complexity without any gain in productivity. Society would be better off if lazy people were excused from the workforce. The weird obsession with forcing everyone to run on a treadmill has got to go.

The older I get the more I think labels like "lazy" are not really useful. Some people are beaten down, discouraged, unexcited at doing hard manual labour for just enough money to get them through to the next day. And some, even if you get them to work, are not going to be much use there. I know in my own career (have worked for decades with no sabbaticals or more than 3 weeks off at a time), I'm really lucky to do a…

This is a very good point. Beating people down rarely results in their most productive work. Any good manager knows this.

Hell, I generally enjoy my job but go though legitimately lazy periods. These are well-contrasted by productive periods, but 9-5 work is a strange thing and people aren't machines.

My point was mostly that even if these imaginary lazy people exist, it doesn't invalidate the need for real economic freedom where you can choose not to work. You were fair to call that out as a lame take though, and I appreciate the perspective.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#417

Post by throw_away_456 » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #412

scarface74 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the role of every job to provide a livable income. How many people on HN wouldn’t have a job at all if their company wasn’t subsidized by VCs? There was an article posted here a few months ago that the average 7/11 owner makes $35K a year and that’s with them putting in 60+ hour weeks. Most small business owners aren’t getting rich. Actually, I wouldn’t be completely opposed to abolishing the minimum wage an…

> It’s not the role of every job to provide a livable income. It’s the role of the economy for someone to get a livable income if that’s what they’re seeking. If it’s not working then it needs a nudge.

Sure, but there are ways to do this that aren't forcing every single job in said economy to provide that type of income.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#418

Post by andrewem » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

cnasc wrote: post #297

smileysteve wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 80 year old man was remarking how Gen Z (and late millennials) aren't even getting their licenses as teens anymore. It's amazing to think that he was the first generation of the ubiquitous automobile in the US and now can't comprehend how the generation before him got around.

> now can't comprehend how the generation before him got around. The generation before him _didn’t_ get around, relatively speaking. Widespread use of the automobile changed transportation patterns dramatically.

The automobile also changed land use patterns dramatically, and the truism is that transportation is land use. See eg Cleveland, Ohio, which now has roughly the same population as it did in I think 1940, but takes something like 4 times the land. So people in 1900 didn't have to travel as much to access a similar amount of opportunity, because things were closer together.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#419

Post by paulcole » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:27 AM UTC

cnasc wrote: post #297

smileysteve wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 80 year old man was remarking how Gen Z (and late millennials) aren't even getting their licenses as teens anymore. It's amazing to think that he was the first generation of the ubiquitous automobile in the US and now can't comprehend how the generation before him got around.

> now can't comprehend how the generation before him got around. The generation before him _didn’t_ get around, relatively speaking. Widespread use of the automobile changed transportation patterns dramatically.

Yep, look at the incredibly limited streetcar and trolley system in Portland in the early 1900s. Really wonder how people survived.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~trolley503/HistMaps.html

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#420

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

Fomite wrote: post #415

scarface74 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the role of every job to provide a livable income. How many people on HN wouldn’t have a job at all if their company wasn’t subsidized by VCs? There was an article posted here a few months ago that the average 7/11 owner makes $35K a year and that’s with them putting in 60+ hour weeks. Most small business owners aren’t getting rich. Actually, I wouldn’t be completely opposed to abolishing the minimum wage an…

"How many people on HN wouldn’t have a job at all if their company wasn’t subsidized by VCs?" VCs aren't taxpayers. We're not getting equity or an upside in McDonalds paying below poverty wages.

Well, seeing that a lot of public pensions invest in both private equity and public stocks, what’s the difference? Your government is still taking the same amount of risk.

Let me tell you about a personal anecdote:

My mom retired from teaching probably about 15 years ago. She was approached a year later about working for a program with the school system for at risk kids. It was based on a federal government grant. When she did the math, she would only be able to work about 10 or 15 hours a week at the rate they agreed to pay her and it not affect her teacher’s pension. She volunteered to take a pay cut - that was under $15 an hour - so she could work more hours and actually help the students. Should she not be allowed to voluntarily work for less?

My own wife when we met was working a job that allowed her to support herself and her (now our) two kids and live in one of the best school districts in the area. She voluntarily took a lower paying and lower stress job that again was less than $15 an hour so she could be on the school schedule.

On a less anecdotal level, there are freelancers in California who are complaining that the government “stepping in” to “help” Uber drivers has made it harder for them to stay freelancers. Jason Snell the former editor of MacWorld who gave up his job to go freelance said the law made it more complicated for him.

I mentioned before that the average 7/11 owner makes $35K a year and puts in 60+ hour weeks. What do you think is going to happen if he is forced to pay $15 an hour? Have you seen the balance sheet of the average small business? Not everyone gets to be subsidized by Big Daddy VC while losing millions of dollars.

Anytime you have government unnecessarily involved in price fixing you get unintended consequences.