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How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

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Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#371

Post by s17n »

soyyo wrote: post #30

I worked on amp for a leading newspaper, and everyone who says that amp is about "making the web faster on mobile" is either very naive or doing marketing for google. For publishers, amp is about trying to top the results on google search and capture traffic, it's their only motivation to publish their content using amp, and the only metric they look in order to evaluate the results. Once they have their amp content,…

> So the "fast" part, besides using their CDN, actually comes from limiting what you can do on almost every other part of the site

That is a good thing.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#372

Post by buboard »

liveoneggs wrote: post #354
buboard wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

amp-ads moves those ads/trackers in iframes, but that doesn't reduce the code size, right? google is also injecting code in your site , so you can't be sure that it's secure / private, right? And if i promise to make all ads async and iframe, will google promise to rank my site higher? If not , they are discriminating in favor of their own walled garden system without an objective ruse.

really? adsense forbids use of iframes afaik

they offer replacements as amp-ads. i dont know how they work

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#373

Post by Karunamon »

behringer wrote: post #112
Karunamon wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen Firefox north of 20gb on my 32gb desktop more than once, and tab crashes are a daily annoyance. Worse, it doesn’t seem appreciably faster on machines with less memory. I wish there was some config flag I could set that would put it on a diet...

Stop hoarding tabs. Anyway I think those are arguments in the past anyway.

"In the past"? I can reproduce this on my daily driver today.

Why do I need to change my workflow because Firefox got worse at what I've used it for for years? If I have to change the way I work, why not change browsers too? If there's a tab limit beyond which Firefox can't effectively control itself, why is that not a hard coded limit?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#374

Post by ravenstine »

mbesto wrote: post #153
brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

> Firefox is awesome. FF dev tools are awesome. FF, like Wu Tang, is for the kids. FF is awesome, but have they fixed the battery issues on Macs yet? It's a non-starter for me to switch.

Having used Nightly for a month now, I can say the battery usage on macOS has vastly improved.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#375

Post by dmitriid »

joshuamorton wrote: post #307
stephenr wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without their monopoly search position no one would be forced to adopt amp and further strengthen said monopoly position.

How does amp strengthen a monopoly position?

In case joshuamorton forgets to disclose in a thread, he currently works at Google.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#376

Post by dmitriid »

gregable wrote: post #346
ogre_codes wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't address those problems, it has effectively created a second, proprietary web which is only accessible from the Google home page. If Google actually wanted to improve the web, they wouldn't be splintering it, they would reward publishers with better search placement for building user-friendly sites. As it is, AMP is little more than a way to ensure the "Google" web is better than the non-Google web. Which…

AMP pages are just HTML. Publishers can and do use AMP pages as their "regular" pages that every user sees, not just those coming from Google. Other aggregators (Bing, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc) link to AMP versions. These pages are far from only accessible from Google queries.

Hello, gregablr who works on AMP and forgets to disclose it:

No, AMP is not "just HTML". It's not HTML5-compliant. It requires js to run and display properly (because Web Components), it gets preferential treatment in Google Search. It's not plain HTML.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#377

Post by ogre_codes »

gregable wrote: post #346
ogre_codes wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't address those problems, it has effectively created a second, proprietary web which is only accessible from the Google home page. If Google actually wanted to improve the web, they wouldn't be splintering it, they would reward publishers with better search placement for building user-friendly sites. As it is, AMP is little more than a way to ensure the "Google" web is better than the non-Google web. Which…

AMP pages are just HTML. Publishers can and do use AMP pages as their "regular" pages that every user sees, not just those coming from Google. Other aggregators (Bing, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc) link to AMP versions. These pages are far from only accessible from Google queries.

Publishers can and some do, but from what I've seen, the overwhelming majority do not. The overwhelming majority of "modern" web-sites are a shit show. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need for AMP.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#378

Post by dmitriid »

gregable wrote: post #348
jammygit wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just annoyed at my links being hijacked. When I click a link, my intention is to visit someone’s page, not to view it through some sort of creepy iframe. When I go to share a link, why is it a google link instead of the newspaper? Why do I have to spend a minute or two hunting for the real one in the ugly ui?

Publishers who implement Signed Exchanges get AMP links directly to their site with no iframe viewer on browsers that support the technology: https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/optimize-... https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/blob/master/explainer.md

Hello, gregablr, who works on AMP and doesn't disclose it.

You mean:

- signed exchanges created an pushed by Google and Google only to solve a problem that didn't exist before AMP

- "implemented by some browsers" as in "implemented only in Goigle Chrome" even before there was any consensus or standards work as yet another avenue of creating Google-onlu web.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#379

Post by RonanTheGrey »

tracker1 wrote: post #235
idoubtit wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. While I use FF, partly for moral reasons, my experience is average and I saw many flaws and bugs. I prefer the features of Vivaldi, which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google. > STOP USING google SEARCH! While my default search engine is Duck Duck Go, I don't recommend it to friends a…

I forced myself to use DDG for about 3 months as my main search engine... nearly 2/3 of the time when searching for technical queries I'd have to fall back to Google... I just switched back... I may give Bing a similar try though, I really like the UI tweaks the Chromium based Edge has done.

This has been my primary reason for resorting to Google too, and I just realized a few days ago that I don't really do that much anymore, DDG's technical results are getting much better.

There are still times DDG completely misinterprets my query and I have to clarify it or resort to !g but these times are becoming less frequent.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#380

Post by ogre_codes »

dmitriid wrote: post #376
gregable wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMP pages are just HTML. Publishers can and do use AMP pages as their "regular" pages that every user sees, not just those coming from Google. Other aggregators (Bing, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc) link to AMP versions. These pages are far from only accessible from Google queries.

Hello, gregablr who works on AMP and forgets to disclose it: No, AMP is not "just HTML". It's not HTML5-compliant. It requires js to run and display properly (because Web Components), it gets preferential treatment in Google Search. It's not plain HTML.

Astroturfing FTW!
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