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Librem 5 USA

puri.sm

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Re: Librem 5 USA

#81

Post by wander_homer »

fghtr wrote: post #14
icefog wrote: post #12

I'm unsold on spending $2,000 or even $700 on a new phone, but I also care deeply about privacy and security. Is there any strong reason to choose "Librem" over a cheaper Android running LineageOS or GrapheneOS? They can be purchased for a fraction of the cost and have been quite reliable for me.

Why Librem 5 costs that much: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: quote from the Purism forum: "First hardware kill switches; first replaceable cellular modem and Wi-Fi/ Bluetooth (on M.2 cards); first smart card reader (for 2FF OpenPGP card); first running 100% free software; only current phone to offer convergence as PC without special hardware" https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elepha..…

> first running 100% free software

That's false, the phone requires non-free software for things like the modem to work.

Re: Librem 5 USA

#82

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #55
icefog wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value this sentiment and do feel charitable, but $2000 is not a small amount for me - I could buy 10 or more used Android phones for the same price and flash them with open source software to give to friends and family. Wouldn't that maximize my contribution to collective privacy instead?

For two years until the non-replaceable batteries in the used phones wear out, so you'd also have to do it again every two years. Whereas with this, it's expensive because it's uncommon, but the more people who buy one the faster they can cover their development costs or fund further development that makes them more popular and achieve economies of scale, and the sooner it is that they can be making them at commodity…

Give them Samsung Galaxy S5s, which do have replaceable batteries.

Re: Librem 5 USA

#83

Post by kop316 »

icefog wrote: post #12

I'm unsold on spending $2,000 or even $700 on a new phone, but I also care deeply about privacy and security. Is there any strong reason to choose "Librem" over a cheaper Android running LineageOS or GrapheneOS? They can be purchased for a fraction of the cost and have been quite reliable for me.

Purism is putting a lot of money into maintainability on the software side. The Librem 5 runs Linux 5.3, and as far as I can tell, have every intention of making sure that their phone runs a mainline kernel.

Any Android phone you get pretty much gets stuck on a version of Linux that will never be upgraded.

The Librem 5 also physically separates out the Radio and WiFi, and allows you to cut power to those, the camera, and the microphone.

Re: Librem 5 USA

#84

Post by filmgirlcw »

jolmg wrote: post #36
computerex wrote: post #29

A fair warning to anyone looking at placing an order for this. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... The company practices a lot of shady business. Their "phone" that they are so proudly claiming to be releasing to backers cannot place phone calls , the camera doesn…

Seems like it can be fixed with a software update, though. A few days of waiting doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It's not like the phone is going to be forever unusable.

> It's not like the phone is going to be forever unusable.

It’s also not like there are any guarantees for when it will be usable — and that is also true for other features and other apps.

I’m all for people supporting projects/ideas that represent their values and the ideals behind the Librem 5 are nice — but this is an extremely ambitious project from a company that has very little capital and lots and lots of work. Anyone spending actual money should be doing so with the understanding that nothing is guaranteed.

Plus, it’s always a bad idea to spend money based on the future promises of a device — it’s not always avoidable, but it’s still not a good idea.

Re: Librem 5 USA

#85

Post by wander_homer »

bluGill wrote: post #62
computerex wrote: post #29

A fair warning to anyone looking at placing an order for this. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... The company practices a lot of shady business. Their "phone" that they are so proudly claiming to be releasing to backers cannot place phone calls , the camera doesn…

They have been upfront about that from what I can tell. They are only shipping phones to those who are either working on making it work, or those who have indicated willingness to accept the flaws to be first. There is every reason to believe it will work. There are things to not like about the company, but releasing like this is not one.

> They have been upfront about that from what I can tell.

Not really:

> Q: If I receive the Librem 5 from one of the first batches, will I have a fully functional phone?

> A: Yes! Even the very earliest batches will be capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality.

https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/

Re: Librem 5 USA

#86

Post by asveikau »

blihp wrote: post #71
asveikau wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The PinePhone will likely be preferable to most LineageOS phones IMO an android app runtme would be essential for any of these efforts to be comparable to Lineage. Anybody working on that?

I doubt that this would be nearly as useful as you think since so many apps are dependent on Google services these days and even the client libraries for them are proprietary. And then there's the fact that you're constantly playing catch up with what is effectively a closed platform with no real public roadmap that throws the occasional source drop over the wall and says 'good luck!' It's unlikely today's Google is…

How do you know how useful I think it will be and in what ways?

F-Droid exists. People installing APKs exist. In some cases these options are better than literal nothing, and especially if momentum builds around these it's possible that app developers may notice.

For lineage, it is popular to install Google Play anyway. I guess that to be a copyright violation that Google looks the other way for and if a real world competitor did this they would crack down.

Re: Librem 5 USA

#87

Post by filmgirlcw »

jolmg wrote: post #51
computerex wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was an issue that could be fixed "in a few days" why wouldn't they simply fix the issue and then release the phone? Or are you suggesting that not being able to make phone calls on a phone is something that slipped through their testing? It has been a "few days" since their announcement and of course this "bug" hasn't been fixed. It seems less like a bug and more like a major design flaw/hurdle.

> why wouldn't they simply fix the issue and then release the phone? Hadn't they pushed the release date many times already? I think making progress more palpable was important. Isn't it better to ship something flawed and continue improving while already in the hands of people than to ship nothing at all and appear more and more like vaporware?

> Isn't it better to ship something flawed and continue improving while already in the hands of people than to ship nothing at all and appear more and more like vaporware?

If you position it purely as a hobbyist project and do not guarantee it for day to day use, I think that’s fine. This is fine for a dev kit.

I think taking preorders and trying to sell it as a privacy-focused phone that can be a real alternative to the main steel options when you don’t have basic things, like making audio calls, figured out, is problematic.

I get the company needs money from preorders to fund development and production, but at the same time, as a consumer, their lack of funding for development/business plan isn’t my problem.

I’m generally fine when things like this are kickstarted and the risk is clear. I’m less comfortable when after the crowdfunding, the company does direct to consumer sales/pre-orders, when the stuff just isn’t done and that isn’t well articulated to anyone clicking that pre-order button.

Re: Librem 5 USA

#88

Post by kop316 »

lostgame wrote: post #75
computerex wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably also the only "phone" that can't place phone calls.

Not sure why the downvotes, here - it’s incredibly valid that a phone of this price should be able to place a normal phone call - it also should’ve been a priority for the developers.

The down votes are because it can place and receive phone calls, there is just a bug that doesn't allow audio on the call. EDIT: according to someone below, that bug is fixed too.

In addition, the backers getting the phone now were explicitly told that the software isn't polished yet, and that they are getting beta hardware. The backers were offered also to be allowed to wait for a later batch if they wanted to.

It definitely is not ready to be a daily driver, don't get me wrong. But folks who wanted it early knew that.

Re: Librem 5 USA

#89

Post by LMYahooTFY »

fghtr wrote: post #14
icefog wrote: post #12

I'm unsold on spending $2,000 or even $700 on a new phone, but I also care deeply about privacy and security. Is there any strong reason to choose "Librem" over a cheaper Android running LineageOS or GrapheneOS? They can be purchased for a fraction of the cost and have been quite reliable for me.

Why Librem 5 costs that much: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: quote from the Purism forum: "First hardware kill switches; first replaceable cellular modem and Wi-Fi/ Bluetooth (on M.2 cards); first smart card reader (for 2FF OpenPGP card); first running 100% free software; only current phone to offer convergence as PC without special hardware" https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elepha..…

What purpose is there for being able to remove the cell modem?

If it's going to run a Broadcom/Qualcomm binary anyway to function, what do you really gain?

Someone who's concerned about this level of eavesdropping I would think shouldn't bother with cellular devices at all?

Re: Librem 5 USA

#90

Post by paulcarroty »

icefog wrote: post #41
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is no matter what custom flavor of Android you run, you are still running an OS made by an ad company designed from the ground up to spy on you. And crucially, every time you buy an Android phone and flash another OS on it, you just paid for an Android phone, reinforcing the monopoly and generating profit for companies pushing the Android platform. The correct solution is to refuse to buy a phone that shi…

> The problem is no matter what custom flavor of Android you run, you are still running an OS made by an ad company designed from the ground up to spy on you. LineageOS and GrapheneOS are based on AOSP, which is an open source project not really "made by an ad company". I agree with your latter point about supporting their hardware and typically buy used phones/computer for that same reason.

Does LineageOS & GrapheneOS provides source code for all closed kernel drivers include modems?

How many people they can assign for serious Android security audit (>million lines of code)?

So, better be realistic about resources. Lineage even used Google DNS & Google internet checkers a lot of time, and probably uses it now. And I even don't started talking about general Google Play store apps, sending user data to Chinese servers is "normal" now.

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