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How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

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Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#291

Post by mrtksn »

bassman9000 wrote: post #277
mrtksn wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use adblocking on Safari(mobile and desktop), so the web experience for me is very good. On the iPhone App, the ads are annoying but I do understand that this is how the content is paid for, so I am O.K. with it. The main difference is that with many websites things jump around when on Youtube the design is clearly defined. There's no cognitive load in trying to find the content between those "subscribe" popups and…

What's the point of praising youtube's UX if you're blocking part of it?

I'm blocking ads on all the websites, my content blocker is not youtube-only. Still, other websites suck and Youtube is great because UX is not just about ads.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#292

Post by Mindwipe »

buboard wrote: post #115
mrtksn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: what else those websites are supposed to do (that AMP does not provide) with all those megabytes of scripts? Newspapers display a text and an image and very rarely an interactive content(Election day maps and charts, mostly). Is there a reason FROM USERS PERSPECTIVE to have different website codebase for each publisher? For years the Web community kept creating new JavaScript libraries every day and…

from USERS PERSPECTIVE, amp is meh. yes it's faster, does it really matter if you re getting an article in 1 second when you -obviously- plan to spend 2 minutes reading it? i dont know anyone who thinks so, perhaps your USERS do > A strealined conent delivery platform prioritizing UX that the publishers failed to create what you re implying is, Google failed to improve their algorithms to bypass obvious SEOs, so they…

It's sometimes a little faster but also considerably less functional. The Guardian and Reddit both have AMP pages that are much worse than the actual pages.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#293

Post by ctack »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #29
RobertRoberts wrote: post #2

I think there needs to be a real alternate solution from Google for longer term change. (if Google wants to stay relevant) Can they just penalize slow/large file size sites in their index? This seems like the underlying goal behind AMP and Chrome's Lighthouse (site audit tool) any way. This would make a lot of sites fast in the next couple months. But maybe Google doesn't really want that?

The reason that they do not just penalize slow loading sites in a big way is because those are the sites that they directly profit on. Most page weight seems to come from tracking and ads. Google IS the most popular tracking and ad provider on the web. If google penalized slow loading very much, they'd be hurting their own revenue and data collection. It's a conflict of interest. AMP allows these big, ad-driven, heav…

You’re correct. When making a site you have to make a trade off between “Advert supported” and “lightweight”. Pretty damn sneaky of them!

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#294

Post by millstone »

deminature wrote: post #275

Probably highly unpopular opinion, but as a user I've never had anything but positive experiences with AMP-enabled sites. They load massively faster than normal sites, especially on poor mobile connections where main sites sometimes hang indefinitely trying to load javascript, ads, etc. While content publishers are continuing to overload their sites with further trackers, ads, javascript, remotely loading assets whic…

Have you used AMP reddit?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#295

Post by deusofnull »

brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

one of the most trivial annoying problems with switching between the two is the difference in how bookmarking works in FF vs chrome.

I have to use chrome for work cuz of a security rule of questionable legitimacy (to me).

in FF, you bookmark a page by dragging the tab into a folder.

in chrome afaik, you have to star it and then select what folder it goes into.

Ok.

Another thing, In chrome, if you context click inside of a bookmarks folder and create a new folder, it creates a nested new folder within the folder you clicked.

In firefox, thats not the case, wherever you click, i believe it creates the new folder at the top level, and then you can drag it to a sub folder. Its a small problem but if you're like me with lots of bookmarks[1], it is a pain in the ass.

[1] for example, i have a folder for every year, with a subfolder for each month, and whenever i find non-specific cool stuff, i toss the bookmark in this month/year folder. at this point i have these going back to 2016, and its become a cool sort of journal or scrapbook type thing. highly recommend this practice to ppl, and its basically the use-case of many 3rd party browser adons for bookmark management, but built into the browser by default.

anyway, long like firefox!

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#296

Post by Mirioron »

eropple wrote: post #99
Mirioron wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up a good point. I think the reason I feel this way is that Google's screw ups didn't inconvenience my usage of Chrome, whereas Mozilla's have inconvenienced my usage of Firefox. What made me initially switch to Chrome was the UI change in Firefox. Years later I thought of swapping back to Firefox and I found out that Firefox doesn't allow me to run my own add ons without their approval.

> I found out that Firefox doesn't allow me to run my own add ons without their approval. This is not and has never been true. What is no longer possible is the ability to sideload extensions outside of the browser by copying files into a directory because that's how dirtbags have stuck extensions that could not be uninstalled into Firefox as part of a third-party app install. Go to `about:addons`, install add-on fro…

Are you sure? Because I just created a barebones hello world. It works fine as a temporary add-on, but I can't install it from the file. Says the add-on is corrupted.

Then I downloaded a working add-on. It worked fine when installing from file. I removed the signing information. It installs fine as a temporary add-on, but throws the same error as the hello world.

I'm pretty sure that the add-ons need to be signed by Mozilla to install from file.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#297

Post by deminature »

millstone wrote: post #294
deminature wrote: post #275

Probably highly unpopular opinion, but as a user I've never had anything but positive experiences with AMP-enabled sites. They load massively faster than normal sites, especially on poor mobile connections where main sites sometimes hang indefinitely trying to load javascript, ads, etc. While content publishers are continuing to overload their sites with further trackers, ads, javascript, remotely loading assets whic…

Have you used AMP reddit?

Yes, it's substandard, but you can easily get to the main site. Also if you're googling for an answer from Reddit, I've found the answer is often in the first few posts anyway. Reddit is probably the only case I can think of where the AMP user experience is not ideal.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#298

Post by jammygit »

mrtksn wrote: post #50
soyyo wrote: post #30

I worked on amp for a leading newspaper, and everyone who says that amp is about "making the web faster on mobile" is either very naive or doing marketing for google. For publishers, amp is about trying to top the results on google search and capture traffic, it's their only motivation to publish their content using amp, and the only metric they look in order to evaluate the results. Once they have their amp content,…

Serious question: what else those websites are supposed to do (that AMP does not provide) with all those megabytes of scripts? Newspapers display a text and an image and very rarely an interactive content(Election day maps and charts, mostly). Is there a reason FROM USERS PERSPECTIVE to have different website codebase for each publisher? For years the Web community kept creating new JavaScript libraries every day and…

I’m just annoyed at my links being hijacked. When I click a link, my intention is to visit someone’s page, not to view it through some sort of creepy iframe. When I go to share a link, why is it a google link instead of the newspaper? Why do I have to spend a minute or two hunting for the real one in the ugly ui?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#300

Post by sectiondetail »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #53
bvda wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if that add on blocks Google's precious ads

Ublock/adblock/abp/etc all still works in chrome

Desktop Chrome, yes. There's a darn good reason why my browser of choice on Android is Firefox, and that reason is spelled "ublock origin".
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