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Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

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Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe users have the full right to filter content they listen to both manually (by skipping forward) and via automated means (by having a robot skip forward)[0]. The benefit of podcasts being an open system -- of them being raw MP3 files, is that users can manipulate and control the content they're being served. An open, ethical system that can only exist because users don't exercise their rights is of little val…

> I believe users have the full right to filter content they listen to both manually (by skipping forward) and via automated means (by having a robot skip forward). Cool, let's automate away creators' ability to make money by giving away free content. Sure, podcasting will die and be replaced by closed, DRM-encumbered audio platforms, but then I'll just steal that same content. And really, isn't killing an open mediu…

> by giving away free content

Ads aren't free.

Yes, it sort of stinks that we might have to come up with another way to fund podcasts. But we should come up with an alternate funding model anyway -- ads aren't ethical, and they're not free. The only reason anyone pays a podcaster to display ads is because statistically speaking, that recommendation is going to manipulate someone into buying that product regardless of its quality or relevance to that person's life.

If you listen to advertising but don't buy the advertised products, you're not supporting creators. Other people who buy those products are supporting creators, and they are subsidizing you. Your money is valuable, not your attention. Your purchasing decisions are valuable, not your ears.

So the idea that advertising is a completely neutral act that somehow magically gives us tons of content for free, without any knock-on effects towards society or business costs or acceptable content is one of the most widely-shared, pervasive misconceptions on the modern Internet. Ads are not magically making money appear from nowhere, ordinary people are indirectly paying for those ads by having their consuming habits altered against their will and without their permission.

It's better for us to just acknowledge that podcasting has a cost, and to just deal with that fact -- not to keep hiding behind the idea that there's a payment scheme out there that will somehow pay someone's salary without affecting anyone else in any way. Just directly support creators: it's healthier for the ecosystem, and it's healthier for you.

> And really, isn't killing an open medium better than manually skipping ads a couple times an hour?

An open medium that you're scared to manipulate is not an open medium. If we're all scared to attach metadata to an mp3 file, then who cares what format the file is in? Who cares whether or not a file has DRM if you're not willing to touch it?

Users have the right to exercise their rights. They also have the right to delegate those rights to other people and software products[0] -- ie, to have a piece of software exercise their filter rights on their behalf. Any world in which people aren't free to filter the content they consume is just another dystopia.

[0]: https://anewdigitalmanifesto.com/#right-to-delegate

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#272
post #62

Ads are terrible regardless of whether they are “nice, inoffensive privacy protecting ads” or “unethical spyware web ad network ads”. This is a great tool and saves people their only truly nonrenewable resource: time. Thank you for making it; if I listened to any of these podcasts I would be using it. Always block everyone’s ads.

Thank you. Which podcasts do you listen to?

The Bunker New York

http://thebunkerny.com/podcasts

Mysteries of The Deep

https://m.soundcloud.com/mysteriesofthedeep/sets/mysteries

The latter is even in alac-m4a lossless, something that surprised and delighted me.

One is run by a friend and the other is run by a friend of friends. They’re both truly excellent.

Neither have ads.

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a massive stretch - anyone who hates adverts enough to risk crashing a car shouldn't be driving one. They're annoying - but this is childish behaviour. Honest question: were you expecting this backlash - I would assume you wouldn't have used a throwaway account otherwise.

I don't view it as backlash. It's interesting and necessary conversation. I want to hear what the HN community thinks.

Podcast ads are a dream compared to the web - this will damage that if your product is even half successful.

If the same was done for TV on a mass scale then you'd sure as shit see invasive DRM in TVs ready to stop you from altering the stream during an ad break.

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#274

I block ads on the web because web advertising networks proved that they had no respect for user privacy, lacked security controls around their ad delivery, and were targeting using data that they probably shouldn’t have had access to. Podcasts do not suffer from this. It’s much harder to identify a user, the ads aren’t software, just audio, so security is better and there’s not much way to see who is listening to th…

> I block ads on the web because web advertising networks proved that they had no respect for user privacy, lacked security controls around their ad delivery, and were targeting using data that they probably shouldn’t have had access to.

You may have this stance, but most people doesn't, even though your argument is the one that you hear the most, it's just that people that doesn't care about stealing content takes argument from all around to justify themselves.

I wish people would just avoid content that doesn't fit their criteria instead of just acting like we deserve that content for free. I got an auto playing video ads twice over Engadget and I stopped going there quickly after informing them about it.

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#275

I'm still shocked that Google has not made a podcast platform wherein they manage the ads and subscriptions. Host the audio, inject ads at the breaks, allow paid subscriptions that remove the ads, have a monthly payment option, etc. Basically half YouTube half Audible. I do listen to one podcast that has an ad-free feed for patreon supporters. It works rather well and they have add a surprising amount of bonus conten…

"YouListen"

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference between being asked to support the people making something you enjoy and allowing totally unrelated and reactionary monied interests access to my attention. The latter can talk to the hand because I don't wanna hear about it.

To each their own, but I personally would rather have someone saying "here's some cool power tools / skateboard equipment / digital pianos you might be interested in buying" than "don't you feel terrible for not sending us money for this thing you can get for free?" I don't like being guilted, I really don't. But I understand that some feel differently.

It's bad either way, only adequate public funding for arts and media can resolves some of these problems.

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own, but I personally would rather have someone saying "here's some cool power tools / skateboard equipment / digital pianos you might be interested in buying" than "don't you feel terrible for not sending us money for this thing you can get for free?" I don't like being guilted, I really don't. But I understand that some feel differently.

It's bad either way, only adequate public funding for arts and media can resolves some of these problems.

I agree with you...I have long been saying that intellectual property (and that includes software) is going to either be subject to artificial scarcity (to me, the biggest evil * ), or horrible funding models like advertising.

Public funding makes a ton of sense, personally I think it is the only economically efficient solution, but doing it well is hard. I scanned your history here to see a bit more on where you are coming from (I agree with you on a lot of things), and I see that this is something you talk about a lot.

I notice you say elsewhere "the enemy is the state". That makes it tricky to say "the state should decide what stuff gets funded." I always tend to be up against that whenever I suggest that state funded IP makes sense. I still believe there is a way.

I have more thoughts on how we could actually move toward such things, my contact info is in my profile, feel free to email.

* see chapter 25 of the Grapes of Wrath for a beautifully written essay on the evils of artificial scarcity: https://genius.com/John-steinbeck-grapes-of-wrath-chapter-25...

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#278
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but is the solution to that an adblocker? Or should users simply follow the age old principle of "buyer beware"? I'm all for adblockers on the web, due to their tracking nature, but podcast ads aren't served from some third party that eats up bandwidth, causes page jumps or autoplays video. They aren't even like Spotify ads, which seem to know when you've muted audio. Is it really that taxing to fast fo…

I'm not speaking for or against this product. It's just remarkable how so many see the current podcast ad tactic as somehow wholesome or less obnoxious, when really it's a world worse. And then they'll claim that it doesn't affect them , caveat emptor, etc, which is simply bullshit -- if they've bought into it being wholesome and "valuable", they are in every way the mark. They are the reason advertisers love this gi…

> if they've bought into it being wholesome and "valuable"

I don't know if that's a representative opinion. Ads are ads. Having the host read copy doesn't tell me anything about whether the product works for me.

There's a scene in Fight Club where Brad Pitt gestures at a bus stop men's underwear ad with a chiseled model on it and says dismissively "Is that what real men look like?"

Moments later, he is shirtless, with a perfectly chiseled body (that fitness trainers will tell you is impossible to keep year-round) fighting waiters and parking lot attendants.

The movie itself is an ad. It would never have sold well if two schlubby middle-aged actors had been cast to play it.

Re: Show HN: I built a podcast app that skips over the ads

#279
post #270

I intrigued at how uniformly negative the reaction is to this. Do people here not use things like AdBlock? Do you also avoid fast-forwarding over ads in videos for the same reason?

I think it is that they are charging money.

Seems like a weird place to draw the ethical line.
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