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Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

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Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#171

Post by Mirioron »

jeltz wrote: post #24
nabla9 wrote: post #2

These are patchwork solutions. It would make more sense if EU countries would make laws that extend normal VAT to all internet business in EU and close all Irish loopholes. Google and others use Irish tax arrangement schemes like "The Double Irish" (base erosion and profit shifting), the Single Malt, and CAIA to avoid paying taxes. 12 EU states reject move to expose companies' tax avoidance https://www.theguardian.co…

That has already happened to some degree, we just need to expand it and simplify it. Within the EU you have to pay the VAT of the country of the buyer for "digital services". But shouldn't Google and Amazon already be subject to that since they have EU subsidiaries?

As a European, I thought so as well. I really can't imagine that they're not collecting VAT.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#172

Post by Mirioron »

nabla9 wrote: post #2

These are patchwork solutions. It would make more sense if EU countries would make laws that extend normal VAT to all internet business in EU and close all Irish loopholes. Google and others use Irish tax arrangement schemes like "The Double Irish" (base erosion and profit shifting), the Single Malt, and CAIA to avoid paying taxes. 12 EU states reject move to expose companies' tax avoidance https://www.theguardian.co…

But VAT is already collected on internet businesses. I really cannot imagine that it's not collected in this case.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#173

Post by sbacic »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #168
sbacic wrote: post #120

I have been seeing these headlines more and more lately and I have a nagging suspicion that somebody is pushing an agenda. What exactly that agenda is remains to be seen. As for the news article you mentioned, it should be noted that the £28m is corporate tax, not _all_ the taxes. I'm reasonably sure that FAANG is not shirking the government on VAT or payroll taxes. As for why they pay so little corporate tax, I'd gu…

I'm sure the media does have an agenda here, that's not to say there isn't a problem though. I don't know about Spain but the UK has FAANG cost centres, Google employees 3,500 people in the UK for instance.

How many of those employees work as customer support and do stuff like localization as opposed to developing Google's core products that are then sold worldwide (I'm really hoping somebody could answer that)?

The first is basically an extension of local sales while the second is a genuine cost center that should be offset by worldwide revenue.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#174

Post by scottlocklin »

sailfast wrote: post #160
scottlocklin wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While that might undermine the argument about America being a protector of liberties, I think it would be a mistake to believe that there is no belief held at all, or that America does not continue to fight for these beliefs. What are these "liberties" and "beliefs" of which you speak? I'm an American and think the place is run by lunatics and mafiosos and has been for my entire life. It's more obvious now, and the…

It's hard to engage in alternate history, but NATO as an organization was formed to ensure that European democratic governments remained that way immediately following World War II, and until the fall of the Berlin wall. Keeping the Russians out, as you say - that was critical to preserving liberal government in Europe. Article V is not just talk, despite the fallout from the war in Afghanistan. Only using recent his…

"Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay was NATO’s first Secretary General, a position he was initially reluctant to accept. By the end of his tenure however, Ismay had become the biggest advocate of the organisation he had famously said earlier on in his political career, was created to “keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.”"

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#175

Post by criley2 »

seibelj wrote: post #153
criley2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If running a business wasn't profitable no one would do it. Simple as that. Running a for-profit is not altruistic. It's not a service. You're not serving your community. It doesn't make you inherently good. People run businesses to make money. Full stop. Some nonsense comparison like "harder than it should be" doesn't mean anything, it's an opinion-based weasel phrase with no definition. Considering how dramatically…

I cannot disagree with this analysis any harder. It is so fully incorrect my eyes are bleeding. Although the entire paragraph was riddled with falsehoods and misconceptions, I will just say that the biggest investors and gainers from corporate success are pension funds and sovereign wealth that benefit average people through their retirements.

After reading Thomas Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century and his literal hundreds of pages of hard sourcing of the claims I made regarding wealth and income inequality and how corporations have served to massively concentrate income and wealth into the hands of a tiny class of managers, I have become used to folks like you who react extremely emotionally and inappropriately to the cold hard reality of how capitalist economies work.

P.S. in America, the retirement system is failing, from social security to public and private pensions. All of them are either being redone to ensure folks won't get their money when they retire they way they were promised, or they're just monetizing debt to keep up. Perhaps European style systems are better funded (which would likely correlate with dramatically higher taxes) but massive pension protests in France starting today would seem to suggest otherwise).

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#176

Post by gamblor956 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #155
seibelj wrote: post #82

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end. Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. T…

This seems like the obvious solution, make up the difference by taxing dividends and capital gains as if they were income. I'm pretty sure this is where we will end up anyway, there seems to be a race to the bottom. It's much harder to move your family offshore to avoid tax than it is to move your profits offshore.

This is how capital gains and dividends used to be taxed...

The capital gains preference is a relatively recent development in the tax world.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#177

Post by sailfast »

scottlocklin wrote: post #174
sailfast wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to engage in alternate history, but NATO as an organization was formed to ensure that European democratic governments remained that way immediately following World War II, and until the fall of the Berlin wall. Keeping the Russians out, as you say - that was critical to preserving liberal government in Europe. Article V is not just talk, despite the fallout from the war in Afghanistan. Only using recent his…

"Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay was NATO’s first Secretary General, a position he was initially reluctant to accept. By the end of his tenure however, Ismay had become the biggest advocate of the organisation he had famously said earlier on in his political career, was created to “keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.”"

Thanks.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#178

Post by tonyedgecombe »

sbacic wrote: post #173
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the media does have an agenda here, that's not to say there isn't a problem though. I don't know about Spain but the UK has FAANG cost centres, Google employees 3,500 people in the UK for instance.

How many of those employees work as customer support and do stuff like localization as opposed to developing Google's core products that are then sold worldwide (I'm really hoping somebody could answer that)? The first is basically an extension of local sales while the second is a genuine cost center that should be offset by worldwide revenue.

https://www.cityam.com/google-uk-employees-earned-226000-ave...

At an average of £225K per year I don't think there are many support staff.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#179

Post by pjc50 »

seibelj wrote: post #82

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end. Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. T…

Giant concentrations of not reinvested money are destabilising. Especially if companies are also allowed to run political campaigns. Arguably retained profits taxation should be higher than shareholder payout taxation to encourage either reinvestment or return to shareholders.

(Note that large categories of shareholders are in pensions or other tax-sheltered vehicles that don't pay capital gains!)

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#180

Post by iudqnolq »

smush wrote: post #148
SirLotsaLocks wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

corporations benifit from state funded systems, so they should give back to the state. The state funds the streets they drive on, the internet they use computers first created by the government, they use are defended by copyright LAW that the government made to protect companies from copycats, they use money regulated by the government, they use employees that were educated (mostly) by the governemnt, smaller compani…

> we need to crack down on tax evasion Corporations, small businesses, private citizens all benefit from state funded systems. That's part of the point of having a state in the first place. It could be seen as hyperbolic to conflate paying the minimum legal amounts with tax evasion. Corporations pay payroll taxes, VAT in relevant countries, capital gains, etc. as required by law. Whether our laws have large wiggle-ro…

They go to jail, unless they're rich (and haven't committed non-white-collar crimes).

For example: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-revenue-kpmg-secret-...

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