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Busyness leads to bad decisions

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Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#41

Post by gerbilly »

mtberatwork wrote: post #34
crispyambulance wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> puritan american culture [ => busy busy busy ] There's definitely something to that. Calvinistic thinking that labor is pious seems to have been a part of American workplaces forever, especially tech. It's even a part even of the stackoverflow ethos-- god help you if you ask a question without showing that you've "done the work" up front. But it's all over the place. Look at the China tech sector with their popular…

I think it's the "rugged individualism" ethos at play (although maybe that is a tangent of Calvinist thinking?) - the fear that if you ask questions you will come across as inferior to your colleagues and risk losing a promotion at best or a job at worst. It's quite terrible thinking and leads to isolation which compounds anxiety at work.

> rugged individualism

Rugged individualism was probably never a thing. The first thing that settlers did when they moved west was to create towns and communities.

Anyone believing otherwise should try to live in the equivalent of the 19th century west without the support of a town and the services it provides.

(I.e.: no blacksmith, no doctor, no general store, no post office, no telegraph...)

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#42

Post by RobertRoberts »

FernandoTN wrote: post #40
automatoney wrote: post #30

So the article mentions "that one study found people preferred giving themselves electric shocks rather than have nothing to do" which sounded like an interesting study. The link provided was to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548057 , and after searching I found this https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/christopher.hsee/vita/Paper... which strangely doesn't mention electric shocks at all.

The study mentioned is "Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75 >Next, participants received our standard instructions to entertain themselves with their thoughts (in this case for 15 min). If they wanted, they learned, they could receive an electric shock again during the thinking period by pressing a button. We went to some length to explain that the pri…

It's too bad studies like this have errors (obvious only in retrospect). I learned as a kid to entertain myself with thoughts and can do so easily for a long time.

But I will shock myself at least once just to see how bad the shock is... not because I would be bored.

(unless they took this into account and let everyone shock themselves before starting the experiment? That would be smart of them... didn't have time to read the study)

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#43

Post by [deleted] »

FernandoTN wrote: post #40
automatoney wrote: post #30

So the article mentions "that one study found people preferred giving themselves electric shocks rather than have nothing to do" which sounded like an interesting study. The link provided was to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548057 , and after searching I found this https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/christopher.hsee/vita/Paper... which strangely doesn't mention electric shocks at all.

The study mentioned is "Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75 >Next, participants received our standard instructions to entertain themselves with their thoughts (in this case for 15 min). If they wanted, they learned, they could receive an electric shock again during the thinking period by pressing a button. We went to some length to explain that the pri…

[deleted]

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#44

Post by purple-again »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #42
FernandoTN wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study mentioned is "Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75 >Next, participants received our standard instructions to entertain themselves with their thoughts (in this case for 15 min). If they wanted, they learned, they could receive an electric shock again during the thinking period by pressing a button. We went to some length to explain that the pri…

It's too bad studies like this have errors (obvious only in retrospect). I learned as a kid to entertain myself with thoughts and can do so easily for a long time. But I will shock myself at least once just to see how bad the shock is... not because I would be bored. (unless they took this into account and let everyone shock themselves before starting the experiment? That would be smart of them... didn't have time to…

I am you and you are me! I have to reign in the day dreaming or I can sit on a bench happy in my mind for hours. I too would have to shock myself at least once to assuage my curiosity.

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#45

Post by DarwinMailApp »

AstralStorm wrote: post #36
DarwinMailApp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and me both buddy! I like your style.. and sometimes I ask myself other questions like will it matter to me in 10 hours, 10 days or 10 weeks? The longer into the future it matters to me, the more important it is to get done IMO :)

I'd phrase it differently: think what will it won't happen if you reorder the tasks, and how long it will take to achieve. Mind that both are estimates and can change.

No that is a more powerful motivator. Thanks for the tip!

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#46

Post by automatoney »

FernandoTN wrote: post #40
automatoney wrote: post #30

So the article mentions "that one study found people preferred giving themselves electric shocks rather than have nothing to do" which sounded like an interesting study. The link provided was to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548057 , and after searching I found this https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/christopher.hsee/vita/Paper... which strangely doesn't mention electric shocks at all.

The study mentioned is "Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75 >Next, participants received our standard instructions to entertain themselves with their thoughts (in this case for 15 min). If they wanted, they learned, they could receive an electric shock again during the thinking period by pressing a button. We went to some length to explain that the pri…

Thanks for finding this, was it linked in the article and I just missed it?

Either way, I was wondering if people shocked themselves out of curiosity, but the part after what you quoted says "Note that these results only include participants who had reported that they would pay to avoid being shocked again... But what is striking is that simply being alone with their own thoughts for 15 min was apparently so aversive that it drove many participants to self-administer an electric shock that they had earlier said they would pay to avoid." They all already knew what it would feel like and they did it anyway.

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#47

Post by automatoney »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #42
FernandoTN wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study mentioned is "Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75 >Next, participants received our standard instructions to entertain themselves with their thoughts (in this case for 15 min). If they wanted, they learned, they could receive an electric shock again during the thinking period by pressing a button. We went to some length to explain that the pri…

It's too bad studies like this have errors (obvious only in retrospect). I learned as a kid to entertain myself with thoughts and can do so easily for a long time. But I will shock myself at least once just to see how bad the shock is... not because I would be bored. (unless they took this into account and let everyone shock themselves before starting the experiment? That would be smart of them... didn't have time to…

I wondered about the same, see my sibling comment. They all had been shocked and had said they'd pay to not be shocked again.

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#48

Post by [deleted] »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #42
FernandoTN wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study mentioned is "Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75 >Next, participants received our standard instructions to entertain themselves with their thoughts (in this case for 15 min). If they wanted, they learned, they could receive an electric shock again during the thinking period by pressing a button. We went to some length to explain that the pri…

It's too bad studies like this have errors (obvious only in retrospect). I learned as a kid to entertain myself with thoughts and can do so easily for a long time. But I will shock myself at least once just to see how bad the shock is... not because I would be bored. (unless they took this into account and let everyone shock themselves before starting the experiment? That would be smart of them... didn't have time to…

[deleted]

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#49

Post by FernandoTN »

automatoney wrote: post #46
FernandoTN wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study mentioned is "Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/75 >Next, participants received our standard instructions to entertain themselves with their thoughts (in this case for 15 min). If they wanted, they learned, they could receive an electric shock again during the thinking period by pressing a button. We went to some length to explain that the pri…

Thanks for finding this, was it linked in the article and I just missed it? Either way, I was wondering if people shocked themselves out of curiosity, but the part after what you quoted says "Note that these results only include participants who had reported that they would pay to avoid being shocked again... But what is striking is that simply being alone with their own thoughts for 15 min was apparently so aversive…

No, it was not properly referenced in the article. I had previously seen the study.

From the supplementary material:

> All participants delivered the shock to themselves in this first part of the study. Thus, in Part 2 of the study, when people had the opportunity to shock themselves again, everyone knew what the shock entailed and how painful it was.

They also asked the participants to rate the experience from the sock in a 1-10 scale (negative to positive) and removed all participants who didn't find the shock as a negative experience.

The grade the remaining participants gave to the shock experience was in the lowest part of the scale, which makes it even more insane:

> ratings of the shock, t(52) = 1.40, p = .167

Re: Busyness leads to bad decisions

#50

Post by alexgmcm »

Frost1x wrote: post #31
twoquestions wrote: post #21

Can personally confirm. A while ago my car died, so I suddenly needed transport right now . I was considering renting a car, but my family loaned me an extra vehicle they had on hand that they keep around for just these emergencies. EDIT: No, there is absolutely no public transport out here. People who can't drive for whatever reason have a very hard time of it. I would have made a much worse decision if I had to pay…

>One of the many ways it's expensive to be poor. These sort of time luxury, magnitude of free/disposable income, and free cognitive load (less stress, etc.) aspects are all too frequently overlooked when shunning the working poor and now, even many working middle class Americans. I remember the sort of stress I had first starting out simply keeping up with utility bill payment schedules to avoid late fees. I had the…

>the working poor and now, even many working middle class Americans.

The fact is that many of those middle class people are now poor but just don't want to accept it.

I'd always define myself as working class because while I have a STEM Masters degree I am entirely dependent upon my salary (which isn't that high, we don't have US level salaries in tech here in Southern Europe) and I have no other sources of income or wealth (real estate, investments etc.)

I think the insistence of many people that they aren't "working class" is bad as it prevents them from seeing what is really in their best interests.

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