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Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

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Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#101

Post by criley2 »

dangerface wrote: post #60
vector_rotcev wrote: post #32

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically. Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk. The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they a…

It's crazy that "Nazi" China is engaging in an ethnic genocide right now, with massive concentration camps, death camps, mass graves, mass rape, mass sterilizations, mass re-education camps, and you would say "China is not the bad guys"

Really goes to show that Europe aren't "good guys" either. A European who could look at despotic China and their Uighur Holocaust and say "not bad guys" is not a good person themselves.

Lest we also forget that Russia is openly engaging in non-stop assassinations on European soil, caring so little for their soverignity that they announce to the world their power by murdering folks in the streets.

The false equivalence here is very sad. "Sure, Russia murders citizens in the streets and China literally has a Holocaust going, but America spies on people (just like us and with our help but shhh)!"

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#102

Post by ixtis7 »

gorgoiler wrote: post #76
tyzerdak wrote: post #63

I think taxes is already so high that half of person earnings goes to retards in government. Why do we pay taxes? I know many people that have close to 0 benefits from government. I would propose all governments to make taxes 5% or 10% and remove themselves from governing.

Taxes redistribute wealth from areas of surplus to areas of need. If one lives alone forever in a log cabin one might indeed never need anything from the government. However, if you need the police to help you, you are already getting something back. If someone else needs the police and the police catch the criminal who would have made you their next target, you are getting a benefit. Now scale that up to the whole c…

I agree that it's silly to say that you don't benefit from government spending at all. On the other hand there is often a real sense of not getting what you put in. I imagine especially so on a forum like this where many are professionals of certain industries with relatively high pay.

For example: public spending per person in the UK is Of course, my cost to society will rise as I get older, but on average I would estimate that I'm paying at least twice (and probably many times more than) what I'm taking. And yet the current trend is for half of society to say that I'm not paying my 'fair share'. I'm not sure what definition of fairness they're using, but it's not mine.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#103

Post by adventured »

mrtksn wrote: post #77
vector_rotcev wrote: post #32

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically. Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

Right now I am again in Turkey after a while. Back then(like 5 years ago?), the USA was seen righteous but demanding country and if you go off-limits bad things can happen to you. Now Turkey acquired Russian made defence system s400 that was supposed to devastate the economy through embargoes. A few years ago a wealthy Iranian businessman living in Turkey was caught laundering billions of dollars through a Turkish st…

> These and many other actions were supposed to make Uncle Sam very angry and punish Erdogan. Nothing of significance happened.

Turkey was removed from the F35 program, for which they are a manufacturer. They are barred from purchasing the 100 F35s they wanted. They will lose that manufacturing position and the jobs that go with it. They have been demanding to still have the right to purchase the F35 jets - they will not be able to so long as they have the S400s.

Turkey was manufacturing about 1,000 parts for the F35. That has now been reduced to 12 as of November. It will drop to zero during 2020.

Losing access to the next generation of planes to upgrade their air force and losing their manufacturing role is significant, according to Turkey's own behavior and words on the matter (Erdogan states it very plainly that they are upset about it). The Turkish economy is a mess right now, having just finally climbed out of a recession. The unemployment rate had climbed from under 10% to 14% as of August. Clearly Turkey could use those manufacturing jobs and they know it.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#104

Post by ptah »

Roark66 wrote: post #68

This is just a government looking for another tax to levy on its people. Google and Amazon will not pay it. The consumers of services offered by those companies will pay it. If there is 3% tax on every google ad sold in Spain. All will Google do is add 3% to its prices for Spanish users.

they can then just buy ads via another EU country

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#105

Post by kazagistar »

orbifold wrote: post #83
matthewowen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was a comment about the UK no longer being a member of the EU soon (we shall see).

In fact rumor has it that a major reason for the Brexit campaign was that there was a threat of very costly corporate tax loopholes being closed in new EU wide legislation.

Which makes little sense since the country had veto, and now they wont?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#106

Post by vector_rotcev »

dustinmoris wrote: post #88
dangerface wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk. The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they a…

> The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. That perfectly summarises the sentiment I get as a European in Europe, the UK and elsewhere in the world. The US is not different to any other bad actor. In fact the US looks increasingly worse to the rest of the…

I'm curious what you think of European support for/collaboration with the USA vs a more self-interested Europe (not isolationist, just not directly aligned with any of USA/Russia/China)?

I haven't heard any clear views on that one way or the other, although I'm not sure the question itself makes perfect sense in terms of actual real world politics.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#107

Post by literallycancer »

criley2 wrote: post #99
seibelj wrote: post #82

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end. Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. T…

The 'double-taxed' argument is so lame. Money circulates in a system and gets taxed basically infinitely. Worker gets paid and pays income taxes and retirement taxes. Worker spends their pay, and has to pay sales taxes. Business gets revenue from that purchase, and has to pays taxes. Business gives it to employee as salary. Taxes. Employee spends it. Taxes. Taxes. Taxes. There is no such thing as 'double-taxation'. I…

People always look at it differently once it's their money being taken away. Anyone who thinks running a business is easy or more profitable than it should be should try to run one.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#108

Post by beefield »

rb808 wrote: post #96
tim333 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero corporate tax would lead to a lot of avoidance and drops in government revenue. Say you are a consultant earning 100k a year who owns a house. You could just pay the 100k to your company and borrow against the house for living costs and pay zero tax for the time being.

Right but eventually they money has to get from the company to the consultant - either dividends or wages. Either way it'll be taxed.

Yep. Eventually. Meanwhile Buffett's tax rate on his (and his companies) income is within the distance of epsilon from zero. Can you estimate when Buffett is going to need the bulk of the money from his compankes to buy a new house? How long heis going to have approximately zero tax rate, that is? My personal estimate is with a very good approximation 'never'.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#109

Post by kazagistar »

LatteLazy wrote: post #3
nabla9 wrote: post #2

These are patchwork solutions. It would make more sense if EU countries would make laws that extend normal VAT to all internet business in EU and close all Irish loopholes. Google and others use Irish tax arrangement schemes like "The Double Irish" (base erosion and profit shifting), the Single Malt, and CAIA to avoid paying taxes. 12 EU states reject move to expose companies' tax avoidance https://www.theguardian.co…

While I agree about it making more sense that way, you only need one state to veto such a measure, and further integration is on hold right now. Plus the EU has it's hands full with Syria, Russia\Ukraine and Brexit. So Spain can act now, or wait a few more decades...

Does the EU have any unified military? I thought that was fully separate and thus anything related to defense or attack wouldn't really impact the EU?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#110

Post by Mirioron »

prepend wrote: post #29

I wish the article had more info on the mechanics of the tax. How do they measure “value” and what percent of the value do they want to collect as tax? The ad sales might make sense, but why not just add a tax on all advertising. The marketplace tax is confusing because do they tax the value of the transaction? The full customer value that results of the acquisition? Why not just use existing sales tax for retail tra…

>Why not just use existing sales tax for retail transaction (which e-commerce is).

My guess is that they already do. The government just wants more tax revenue as usual. Tech companies are just a good punching bag right now.

Edit: I cannot imagine that they are not collecting VAT on these transactions. Digital VAT is a very explored topic in the EU.

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