Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#51

Post by melenaboija » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

vector_rotcev wrote: post #32

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically. Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

I agree with you but, what about the USA not being aware of building a strong western economy?

Economic politics from USA the last years has been quite protectionist and it seems in the coming future it will have to fight against countries with literally billions of people, so my feeling is western countries better stay together.

Is not about fear but working class being tired, among other things, of big corporations avoiding taxes and they having to maintain the social structure.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#52

Post by wil421 » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

corebit wrote: post #50

pmontra wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA are entering an isolationist phase (it started with Obama, acccelerated by Trump) so it's natural that the rest of world is a little bit less concerned about their threats. Unfortunately the new possible friends look less friendly than the USA of the second half of '900.

Please use the right words so that no one misunderstands the truth or thinks that you are lying. What the USA is doing is in no way isolationist. That is something completely different with no parallels or relations in any way. Using the word isolationist is misleading to the point of mistruth. It would be more accurate and representative of reality to say the USA appears to be acting more independently on the intern…

To add to your comment:

Definition of isolationism

: a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations

Further reading. American Isolationism in the 1930s[1].

[1] https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/american-isol...

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#53

Post by baq » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #37

rat9988 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The us is protecting its own interests. It doesn't care about right or wrong, nor does any other country. Wether the current action is morally right, and wether countries should behave outside the boundaries of ethics is an exercise left to the reader.

If that is true, why do countries spend money on development aid? Isn't that caring about what's right? Or to take a more extreme example, why do we give a lifelong salary for nothing in return to people who are unable to work for the rest of their lives? Surely killing them would be more efficient. I do think states should, can, and do care about right and wrong to a certain extent. That's the difference between us…

> If that is true, why do countries spend money on development aid?

1) so people from benefiting countries don't want to immigrate to the paying country (or to put it differently - aren't as motivated to leave because the differences are smaller)

2) so the paying country has somebody to sell their stuff to

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#54

Post by nwellnhof » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

Historically, it has always been understood that companies only pay income tax in their country of residence. BMW isn't taxed on its US income by the US, just like Google isn't taxed on its German income by Germany. I think it's more accurate to say that the so-called "Google tax" is actually a tariff on Internet services. Traditionally, tariffs were only levied on imported goods but the concept works for services as well. That said, if a country unilaterally imposes tariffs, it shouldn't be surprised to see retaliatory tariffs in return.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#55

Post by ptah » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #27

ptah wrote: post #6

I don't understand why the US constantly interferes in the internal affairs of other countries like this

Because they aren't internal - they are impacted by it with broad reach. There have been many stupid attempts to target Google in the past from vested interests (snippet tax, link tax) - but this one isn't very objectionable. The main legitimacy to the complaint is that even though nation neutral it is defacto targetted by industry concentration because of the lack of international Spanish internet companies. A flims…

to operate in spain they would have to have registered spanish or eu companies

edit: spain is merely taxing legal entities within their jurisdiction not in US

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#56

Post by turbinerneiter » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

cf141q5325 wrote: post #47

LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree about it making more sense that way, you only need one state to veto such a measure, and further integration is on hold right now. Plus the EU has it's hands full with Syria, Russia\Ukraine and Brexit. So Spain can act now, or wait a few more decades...

I wouldnt say Syria and Ukraine are anything the EU has their hands full over.

Well, we are indeed quite busy ignoring all those issues very hard!

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#57

Post by waydowntogo » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

[flagged]

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#58

Post by _Understated_ » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #49

_Understated_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comment but I respectfully disagree: If a country has a law that says "you pay X tax using this law/method but Y tax using this other law/method" Google are perfectly within their rights to say, "Let's use Y". Who in their right mind would say "you know what, I'm going to pay more tax"? Have you seen the size of modern tax laws?[1] They're utterly gargantuan! [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr…

It sounds like you agree with me. That's not a loophole. That's a conscious decision on the part of whomever wrote that section of law to basically say "pay the lesser of these two methods."

Not really. The way I explained it wasn't clear.

Usually a loophole is more complicated like the Double Irish with the Dutch Sandwich which requires some complex maneouvering on the part of the company to pay minimal tax.

I run a small business and that kind of thing is beyond my capabilities and would also cost too much but not for Google.

That's what I assumed you meant by loopholes... my explanation of the process was a bit too simplistic.

To me, a loophole is looking through all the laws and saying, "ooh, if we put our money here, then declare this thing, we can show a loss that allows us a rebate on a particular tax" or something... it's a symptom of excessive complexity in our tax systems.

I don't blame organisations for doing it.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#59

Post by krzyk » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:11 PM UTC

nwellnhof wrote: post #54

Historically, it has always been understood that companies only pay income tax in their country of residence. BMW isn't taxed on its US income by the US, just like Google isn't taxed on its German income by Germany. I think it's more accurate to say that the so-called "Google tax" is actually a tariff on Internet services. Traditionally, tariffs were only levied on imported goods but the concept works for services as…

It depends what you mean by "understood".

For me it is obvious that BMW should pay taxes in US for cars sold in US. Are they taxfree there?

And Google should pay tax in country where they sell given good - assuming a tax can be goods based.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#60

Post by dangerface » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:11 PM UTC

vector_rotcev wrote: post #32

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically. Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk.

The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil.

USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they are just powerful, and USA are clearly loosing that power to Russia and China.

> If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?)

These sorts of threats only work on small poorly established countries and Europeans know it. We wrote the game Americans are playing and I hope they learn from our mistakes, or they will end up like us.