Live data from Hacker News

Sacred scripture lives and evolves, is never fixed

lithub.com

1–10 of 18 posts

Re: Sacred scripture lives and evolves, is never fixed

#2
If you like this kind of thing, check out The Development of Doctrine (Newman). Snippet: "It is indeed sometimes said that the stream is clearest near the spring. Whatever use may fairly be made of this image, it does not apply to the history of a philosophy or belief, which on the contrary is more equable, and purer, and stronger, when its bed has become deep, and broad, and full."

Re: Sacred scripture lives and evolves, is never fixed

#3
One of the most interesting parts of this excerpt to me is that it presents the idea that "scripture" - sacred, inviolable, and written down - is only one of many possible forms.

That the Aryans considered the sound of the scripture to be more important than its content, and that writing it down was corrupt and even sacrilegious, is fascinating.

Re: Sacred scripture lives and evolves, is never fixed

#4
>The Aryans seem unlikely producers of a holy scripture, since their lives were not what we would call devout.

I wonder where this idea comes from that only devout people can be inspired. People are shocked when they pick up the Old Testament and read about (e.g.) Abraham pretending his wife is his sister so a rival king will take her into his harem. Jesus said: who would love you more, a man whom you forgave a $5 debt, or a man whom you forgave a $500 debt? Obviously the latter!

>Sound had always been sacred to the Aryans—it was far more important to them than the meaning of these hymns—so when they intoned and memorized them, the priests felt possessed by a sacred presence

If you went to a physical therapist and he told you to move your tongue/lips/lungs in certain specific motions, which happened to produce noises, you wouldn't judge the exercise by the semantic content of those noises. Maybe scripture should be thought of like that. Exercises to train certain parts in the brain. Some (like the Vedas) train neurons associated with low-level tongue movements. Others (like the Christian gospels) train neurons associated with higher-level abstract concepts.

Re: Sacred scripture lives and evolves, is never fixed

#7

Hasn’t the Koran been static since it’s inception?

Depending on what you mean by inception, maybe yes, maybe no. It was not initially written down exactly as we have it today, no. It was eventually canonized into its current form, yes, if that's what you mean, though exactly when and by whom is unclear.

[EDIT] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

Re: Sacred scripture lives and evolves, is never fixed

#9
"Never fixed" here, means changing in meaning, not failing to be repaired -- but which also happens.

Mistakes in written scriptures are common, often seeding weird cults. For example, the biblical proscription on "suffering a witch to live" is said to have referred, in the original, to poisoners, but inspired an Inquisition devoted, in large degree, to confiscating widows' inherited property.

"Life of Brian" noted the phenomenon.

Re: Sacred scripture lives and evolves, is never fixed

#10
This article is just wrong. First, there were no Aryans in the Steppes; only Proto-Indo-Europeans.

A branch of PIEs migrated south and southwest, and ended up in Iran and India. This branch is called the Proto-Indo-Iranians, or the Aryan branch of PIEs. This happened some time before 1500 BCE, because we have evidence of Vedic gods in things like the Mitanni treaties.

Regarding the point about Aryans not caring about the content of scripture, this is again wrong. First, the Iranian branch came up with Zoroastrianism, where this deep focus on sounds never happened, and in fact Zoroastrianism is thought to have been the progenitor of the monotheistic view of later Abrahamic religions.

Second, the “sounds” of the Vedas are accompanied with actual intricate ritual sacrifices. These ceremonies ran for multiple days, and involved a number of precise steps and timed incantations. Yes, there is a big focus on correct pronunciation of hymns, but these are only granted power by the actual execution of the ritual.

The rest of the article talks a lot about a Indo-Aryans constantly viewing life as a struggle between themselves and others. Yes, the scriptures contain a large amount of text on struggles between Arya and non-Arya, but it’s not clear how much of this actually reflects the common person’s reality vs the attempts of priestly composers trying to maintain their hierarchy at the top of the caste system. (The idea is that, priests, being the arbiters of religion, decided what was Aryan and what wasn’t. It was thus in their interest to declare their own knowledge as Aryan, while declaring indigenous religion, or even religion of other PIEs in India, as non-Aryan)

Post reply on HN