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Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
71–80 of 133 posts
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Microsoft is still a behemoth, with its fingers in a lot of pies, but unlike Apple and Google, it has not manage to grab onto the future, yet. The future if going mobile, and services. Microsoft has so far lost the mobile race, and the big services do not use MS servers. They are looking in the worst shape to face the future than they have ever, in the last 20 years.
I partially agree, but with some caveats: 1. Future is also in the games, and here Microsoft has a very competitive product (xbox/kinect) 2. mobile race is not over yet, and WP7 is conceptually a good product, combining polished UI (aka iOS) with at least some hardware variety (aka Android). It just came late to the game, but it is not yet clear if too late. I personally think they can catch up with throwing enough m…
2. & 3.) It's very, very late to come to these races with nothing truly compelling to show. I think they've already lost, but, nothing's sure...
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#73I read half of this. Its late, and I don't have the time or energy to refute point by point every single wrong thing that is written in that half. Its easy to sum up. Yes, Google indexes hundreds of millions of sites. It does so in order for other people to be able to search and find those sites, which is important to their owners. Its a symbiotic relationship, not theft of intellectual property. Google has spent bil…
> I read half of this. Its late, and I don't have the time or energy to refute point by point every single wrong thing that is written in that half. It's dilger, why would you bother reading that tripe at all?
I don't know. I actually think he has a pretty good point here. I'm generally positive on Google but I'm embarrassed by their public tantrum. If I was advising a startup with similar grievances against a competitor, I'd strongly encourage them to avoid this distraction. It just feels like bruised ego. And so far, I think Google's cause has been hurt more than helped.
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also websites can opt-out of having their content indexed. How can Google opt-out of having its search index copied by Microsoft? The funniest argument in this has been "Bing hasn't got the data, Google has an unfair advantage etc" as if Microsoft didn't exist before Google. Microsoft have had years headstart to get their online division doing something worthwhile, but they still can't get it right.
Put up a terms of use or force users to accept a license agreement. They do no such thing today. So I think you'd have a hard time saying Microsoft has done anything legally wrong here.
Google already has terms of service. You agree to them by using Google. http://www.google.com/accounts/
5.3 You agree not to access (or attempt to access) any of the Services by any means other than through the interface that is provided by Google, unless you have been specifically allowed to do so in a separate agreement with Google. You specifically agree not to access (or attempt to access) any of the Services through any automated means (including use of scripts or web crawlers) and shall ensure that you comply with the instructions set out in any robots.txt file present on the Services.
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's not to understand? Microsoft is colecting search phrases from searches people make though the IE search box. Then they are tying that data to the next page people click to after the search. Google intentionally polluted their data using odd phrases and asked users to click on their bogus results. Given that the only data bing would have for those strange phrases is polluted crap from Googlers it's not surprisi…
> Google asked users to click on their bogus results. Got a citation for that?
We asked these engineers to enter the synthetic queries into the search box on the Google home page, and click on the results, i.e., the results we inserted
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/microsofts-bing-uses-...
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#76I had to reread the original Google article to verify a point. The signal Bing is alleged to be using is that users CLICKED on the result that came up ... not the results that just came up first in Google upon a search query. And these are users who agreed to install the Bing toolbar! Here's a hypothesis. I suspect Bing is making use of data that is typed in the toolbar or browser's search box ... not data captured f…
From your comment: I suspect Bing is making use of data that is typed in the toolbar or browser's search box ... not data captured from text typed directly into Google's search page.
From the official Google blog: We asked these engineers to enter the synthetic queries into the search box on the Google home page, and click on the results, i.e., the results we inserted.
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I partially agree, but with some caveats: 1. Future is also in the games, and here Microsoft has a very competitive product (xbox/kinect) 2. mobile race is not over yet, and WP7 is conceptually a good product, combining polished UI (aka iOS) with at least some hardware variety (aka Android). It just came late to the game, but it is not yet clear if too late. I personally think they can catch up with throwing enough m…
2. & 3.) It's very, very late to come to these races with nothing truly compelling to show. I think they've already lost, but, nothing's sure...
It's never too late, the game changes too much. Just 5 years ago Palm and Blackberry owned the entire smart phone market.
I wouldn't want to be in MS position, but with enough money, patience and perseverance you never know what they might do and what may be next
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#78Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the article switches back and forth between serif and sans-serif font?
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you kidding yourself consciously or just 8 years behind the news? @_@ http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=goog%20msft Note how MSFT is swinging around 0% growth, while GOOG is steadily between +20% and +60% growth, in regard to share prices. The market has spoken some time ago, and the trend doesn't look like changing anytime near soon.
You fail to understand how to interpret a "relative growth" chart. Google is not "steadily between +20% and +60% growth." Since a random point in time picked by WA it shows what you would be up on another random point in time. If you look at the historical returns of MSFT vs GOOG there is no competition. You're original $10,000 in MSFT would be worth many millions and your GOOG stock would be worth less than $100,000…
That's a valid point, but it bears no relation to matter of the current trend -- which is what OP argued about, right? And the seems to be: GOOG price is growing, MSFT price is flat for some years. So what it skyrocketed years ago, when somebody else held the helm and the market was not saturated with countless `me-too' products?
BTW., switch to the 5 year range in WA and you still see the trend.
Re: Why is Google so hysterically hypocritical about Bing using its public data?
#80http://www.google.com/robots.txt First two lines: User-agent: * Disallow: /search
There is no robot involved. An actual human instructs their user agent to retrieve a document on Google. A piece of code, running in that user agent, does something. If anyone has a complaint here, it is the user, not Google. (Google really really doesn't want to spin this as "MS is spying on our users" because as soon as they say that some person is going to point out "Google is spying on the entire world" and that…
Although strictly speaking you're right, it breaks the intent of robots.txt as the users' clickstream is fed into the server-side indexing engine alongside robot crawled data.
Arguing that according to the strict letter of the spec, robots.txt only has to be obeyed by true crawlers does hold water as strictly speaking Bing could disregard robots.txt altogether - it's not certainly not legally enforceable. The intent of robots.txt is clear and Bing should be trying to obey it wherever possible.
In this case it appears the keyword was associated because it was typed into the Google search box, and from the there to the faked destination. IMHO when the clickstream was analysed it should have disregarded clickstreams that pass a robots.txt-excluded page as these could establish associations that were not supposed to revealed by crawlers.
We aught to hold Bing and any search engine to the highest standard when talking about crawling etiquette.