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The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

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Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a culturally enforced strict rule of moving literally ALL new conversations into a subthread and I absolutely LOVE it. This means that if you want to respond to a comment, you never do it in the channel but in the subthread of _that_ comment. This means that when you browse the channel itself, each individual line represents a conversation on a specific topic. You can essentially browse the "headlines" of the…

This is how I imagined threads working when they were announced, but it seems they are never used consistently. How exactly do you manage to enforce that rule? Even if this worked, it's just a nice step toward a full comment tree (like HN or reddit). I get the impression some people find that format confusing, but I think it's vastly superior. I assume programmers generally prefer it.

If it's an actual comment tree and not a single level that also mixes in multiple conversations, then it works. Otherwise, it's like trying to use something like Facebook for a discussion platform.

How would HN or reddit look like if every reply to a post also had a single level nested thread that actually consisted of multiple subthreads of conversations with everything at the same level of nesting? It would be much more difficult to follow different subtopics of interest since it would be impossible to filter out posts that aren't pertinent to it.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#152

I’m a bit amused because: 1. Their customer support emphatically told me they wouldn’t make this an option AND 2. They didn’t even need to do a new release to turn on the option. At least their engineering team is still making good decisions :)

Customer Support having outdated/bad communication with Product is not surprising at all. For every person where the person who makes the decisions is not the person to relay the decisions, this error can be introduced. It's like a big game of telephone.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#153
post #11

Amazing to see how Slack turned from something everyone raved about to something everyone is sort of annoyed with and critical of. Maybe that isn't that surprising for most products as they age/mature but it seems particularly acute with Slack.

Slack is nothing compared to JIRA in that regard. JIRA might be worst modern software I've ever been forced to use. I typically have no problems working with Slack -- everything just sort of works as I expect it to 95% of the time. The fewer questions I have to ask, the better the design.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#154
I just changed to the ripcord desktop client, and couldn't be happier. While not as superficially polished, it is super responsive and does what you would expect of a chat app very well. Overall, I think the UI is less ugly, because I judge latency as one of the ugliest warts in UI.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#155
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just bring back IRC

Ugh no. IRC was great in its day, and I'm sure there are things today that it's still good enough for, but at work, I vastly prefer Slack (and possibly other similar tools, but I haven't power-used any of them yet.) I've been a very, very regular IRC user up until a few years ago. I wouldn't want to go back. With IRC, there is no simple, just-works-for-non-techies way to receive messages if you aren't online; running…

> With IRC, there is no simple, just-works-for-non-techies way to receive messages if you aren't online; running irssi in tmux is not such a solution. No proper history to scroll through to catch up on what's happened on your day off, or search for that analysis summary someone posted back in June.

With the ability to stay online 24/7, why would you go offline? My work machine stays on all the time and I had no problem scrolling back through messages that were sent when I wasn't there. As for the analysis summary example, how easy is it to search for a post that was made half a year ago? Would it be easier to find if that had been sent via email?

> No way to embed images or code snippets in a way that makes them visible without clicking a link or DDC-sending things.

With my current settings using Slack, I have to click on the image link to expand it. Otherwise, I would have a window with multiple animated gifs running in the background to serve as a signficant distraction. Slack also seems to have a low limit on the number of lines you can post in a code snippet. At least a lot lower than what pastebin allows in my experience. And the new WYSIWYG editor made posting them far more annoying than using pastebin and pasting the link.

> No custom emoji

I actually disable rendering them with my current settings in slack. For :), I see :slightly_smiling_face: instead. Animated emojis, like gifs are distracting to me.

> Security and data protection are terrible by default in all ircds I know.

There's nothing that prevents applying company security policies to the servers that are running ircd on site. On the other hand, if Slack suffers a data breach, then what will your company do?

> It's harder to get alerts sent to IRC; everyone and their mother offer Slack integration nowadays, and you can literally curl some text against a webhook if none is offered.

Not everything needs to be sent via a HTTP request. There are plenty of tutorials out there to write a simple IRC bot that can handle the scenario of sending messages to an alert channel. This blog compares the Slack way with setting up an IRC bot: https://drewdevault.com/2018/03/10/How-to-write-an-IRC-bot.h...

> No emoji reactions, e.g. checkmark on someone else's request to say "I did this, everyone else don't bother"

What's wrong with just sending an actual response?

> No treads, like for "I just finished this analysis, this is the summary, details in thread" – extremely useful.

Threads? If I want threads, I would stick to email or usenet. Websites like this one and Reddit largely implemented threads correctly such that they're useful. Websites like Slack and Facebook did not. Having a single level thread under a response with multiple subtopics within that thread makes it much harder to follow what's going on in an otherwise threaded conversation.

> No functioning way to edit or delete messages for everyone after the fact

I've always used the convention of posting a sed style subtitution command right after I realize my error. E.g.,

s/subtitution/substitution/

I think it's easy enough. A different convention is to just post the correct spelling with an asterisks. Every chat client I've seen worked that way without any issues and people understood what the correction was for.

FWIW, I've used IRC, AIM, MSN messenger, and other proprietary messaging clients and platforms and none have been as sluggish and unintuative to use as Slack.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to provide a counterpoint, threads are very useful for channels with hundreds of members, so that anyone can ask a question but the responses don't make other questions invisible. In that case, the lack of threads would hide important information.

In that situation, I think I would go insane, or resign to preserve my sanity! Our slack channels have at most a dozen active members and my channel list has approximately a dozen channels with permutations of the same dozen people organized topically. I have turned off almost all notifications as they are so ridiculous and look at the sidebar once in a while to see which channels are active. I consider slack content…

> Recently I had the absurd situation of someone using threaded replies in a direct message channel

My colleagues and I sometimes discuss far-ranging topics in temporal proximity. While in the heat of the chat I can keep replies straight in my head, it helps to have them grouped for later review; furthermore, they reduce the need for segues in and out of conversational contexts, which I find incredibly liberating.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#157
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh no. IRC was great in its day, and I'm sure there are things today that it's still good enough for, but at work, I vastly prefer Slack (and possibly other similar tools, but I haven't power-used any of them yet.) I've been a very, very regular IRC user up until a few years ago. I wouldn't want to go back. With IRC, there is no simple, just-works-for-non-techies way to receive messages if you aren't online; running…

> With IRC, there is no simple, just-works-for-non-techies way to receive messages if you aren't online; running irssi in tmux is not such a solution. No proper history to scroll through to catch up on what's happened on your day off, or search for that analysis summary someone posted back in June. With the ability to stay online 24/7, why would you go offline? My work machine stays on all the time and I had no probl…

> FWIW, I've used IRC, AIM, MSN messenger, and other proprietary messaging clients and platforms and none have been as sluggish and unintuative to use as Slack.

You think slack is bad, wait until they force you to switch to teams.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#158

Don’t understand the need for a WYSIWYG editor in the first place. It’s not a word processor. The need to add formatting to a Slack message should be rare enough that the WYSIWYG overhead just isn’t worth it.

They want to make the product appeal to all users and not just techy ones. And If I product managers or CEO or whoever can print his message bold he's happy.

Very few non techy people know what markdown even is. (From my own experience asking friends etc.)

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#159

This is a good reminder that sometimes complaining about companies on social media like Hackernews and Twitter does actually help. Not always, maybe not even usually. But Slack went from, "no, we have no plans to adjust this", to "yes, we'll include a toggle", and the reason was that a bunch of people publicly complained and wrote a bunch of messages to support. It is a very, very, very small victory, and if I was go…

I think they also got a lot of feedback directly through /feedback in Slack and support emails.

So they were not necessarily reacting ONLY on public outcry - they have direct feedback from paying customers as well.

Re: The latest version of Slack has a setting to disable the WYSIWYG editor

#160
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure Chromium is to blame here. All the WYSIWYGs in all the environments I've ever seen I found fiddly and unpleasant to use.

The above demo works fine in Firefox, FWIW. I had a large hand in building a WYSIWYG email editor a few years back, using direct DOM editing, that was the most full featured available at the time. I would only recommend it to people with very high pain tolerance, as the differences between browsers are stark, undocumented and hard to work around.

It doesn't work fine on Firefox android.
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