FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc • Hacker News Board

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#61

Post by markdown » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

openasocket wrote: post #57

merpnderp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When these regulators stop "retiring" to cushy jobs in the industry, I'll believe it's the politicians and not the regulators openly taking bribes in the form of future "jobs". An easy fix would be for congress to pass a law preventing regulators from working in the industry they regulated, but then the politicians wouldn't also receive those same cushy "jobs".

While I agree with the sentiment, keep in mind it's a little more complicated than that. People who work on some category of regulations can only find relevant work in the government or in that sector of industry. Making it impossible to move from the government to an industry job effectively traps people for life in their one job unless they change careers. As a concrete example, my fiance is a lawyer working in env…

> Making it impossible to move from the government to an industry job effectively traps people for life in their one job unless they change careers.

And?

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#62

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

mark-r wrote: post #45

ksec wrote: post #42

So are those Johnson and Johnson Baby powder actually safe? I remember reading J&J said only a batch in some years contains ultra small amount of some substance and less than certain % of it is safe.

I thought they switched the baby powder formula from Talc to Cornstarch many years ago. Maybe I'm mistaken?

[deleted]

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#63

Post by tomatotomato37 » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

openasocket wrote: post #57

merpnderp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When these regulators stop "retiring" to cushy jobs in the industry, I'll believe it's the politicians and not the regulators openly taking bribes in the form of future "jobs". An easy fix would be for congress to pass a law preventing regulators from working in the industry they regulated, but then the politicians wouldn't also receive those same cushy "jobs".

While I agree with the sentiment, keep in mind it's a little more complicated than that. People who work on some category of regulations can only find relevant work in the government or in that sector of industry. Making it impossible to move from the government to an industry job effectively traps people for life in their one job unless they change careers. As a concrete example, my fiance is a lawyer working in env…

There exist tertiary jobs that employ the same skillsets without the danger of pervasive incentives. No one minds if a EPA regulator that does agriculture cases his whole career then take a lawyer job in the fishing or mining industry. It's when that person drops immediately into a legal career at Monsanto that people start seeing a conflict of interests.

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#64

Post by asdf21 » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

davidhyde wrote: post #2

So if you are a small cosmetics company the FDA will prevent you from selling your product without thorough testing but if you are a large cosmetic company you can simply tell the FDA that everything is OK. This benefits the larger companies and therefore, monopolies. Strikingly similar to how the FAA seems to operate with Boeing and look how that turned out.

Right, so government cannot be trusted to enforce consumer protections and it needs to be privatized.

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#65

Post by asdf21 » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

chcknsammich wrote: post #41

davidhyde wrote: post #2

So if you are a small cosmetics company the FDA will prevent you from selling your product without thorough testing but if you are a large cosmetic company you can simply tell the FDA that everything is OK. This benefits the larger companies and therefore, monopolies. Strikingly similar to how the FAA seems to operate with Boeing and look how that turned out.

The real root of the problem is probably that the FDA is also a monopoly.

As are all government programs -- agreed, that is the issue.

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#66

Post by asdf21 » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #17

mikestew wrote: post #10

It was over seventy years, after it was decided lead in fuel was a bad idea, before it was banned in road-going vehicles. [0] Keep that in mind when some politician or business owner goes on about "bureaucrats". Because "bureaucrats" to them means "someone who stands between me and more profits". "Bureaucrats" to you should mean "people that make sure this shit gets enforced". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyl…

When these regulators stop "retiring" to cushy jobs in the industry, I'll believe it's the politicians and not the regulators openly taking bribes in the form of future "jobs". An easy fix would be for congress to pass a law preventing regulators from working in the industry they regulated, but then the politicians wouldn't also receive those same cushy "jobs".

"Government isn't working well! Easy fix, what we need is more government."

Smart thinking over here.

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#67

Post by asdf21 » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

markdown wrote: post #61

openasocket wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the sentiment, keep in mind it's a little more complicated than that. People who work on some category of regulations can only find relevant work in the government or in that sector of industry. Making it impossible to move from the government to an industry job effectively traps people for life in their one job unless they change careers. As a concrete example, my fiance is a lawyer working in env…

> Making it impossible to move from the government to an industry job effectively traps people for life in their one job unless they change careers. And?

And... that's an ignorant, facile and unenforceable policy.

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#68

Post by gamblor956 » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #47

sfkdjf9j3j wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people mean citations of the medical research behind these procedures, not that there exist doctors willing to perform them.

Fair enough. Here's research from one clinic: https://regenexx.com/results/research/

People mean citations to researchers that don't stand to directly profit from their spurious (i.e., fake) research, like the idiot/murderer that spawned the anti-vaxx movement.

So far you've only cited doctors and clinics that directly benefit from promoting stem-cell research, and no unbiased (i.e., academic) studies showing any sort of statistical benefit.

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#69

Post by mikestew » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

asdf21 wrote: post #66

merpnderp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When these regulators stop "retiring" to cushy jobs in the industry, I'll believe it's the politicians and not the regulators openly taking bribes in the form of future "jobs". An easy fix would be for congress to pass a law preventing regulators from working in the industry they regulated, but then the politicians wouldn't also receive those same cushy "jobs".

"Government isn't working well! Easy fix, what we need is more government." Smart thinking over here.

"We've cut budgets such that there aren't enough regulators to keep tabs on things, while J&J bullshits consumers, and your solution is more government?"

Yes, that is exactly my solution. Do you have suggestions?

Re: FDA bowed to industry for decades as alarms were sounded over talc

#70

Post by jcims » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

gwern wrote: post #44

ksec wrote: post #42

So are those Johnson and Johnson Baby powder actually safe? I remember reading J&J said only a batch in some years contains ultra small amount of some substance and less than certain % of it is safe.

One has to wonder about a lengthy article which refuses to cite any numbers and instead repeats endlessly that 'no level is known to be safe', which is irrelevant.

I went through a hysterical moment in my life where i did some grinding on the concrete floor in the basement and the sheeting i put up to keep the dust from going through the home failed. This sent a large plume of fine particulate through my house and i was concerned for the health of my family. Trying to gauge how much of an issue this was turned out to be impossible as the regulatory agencies wouldn’t set some kind of lower limit on exposure.

Then of course you find all manner of skeevy companies leveraging that in scare marketing. Ultimately went with hepa vacuum, big fan to do a few air exchanges with the outside and upgraded furnace filters. Nobody’s died yet.