Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

zdnet.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 207 posts

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#151

Post by jsgo »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #109
zelly wrote: post #72

This is great news. Microsoft is adopting/forking Rust. That means Rust will be supported for all eternity.

Just like Windows on ARM is supported for all of eternity! Or google anything, or any one of a million failed and dead projects. Cool that MS is using something Ruat based. In no way does that opinion lead to a conclusion of ongoing support.

If they’re rewriting Windows core bits with it, that’d seem a fairly strong indicator their involvement with it is serious. That’d be unnecessary technical debt otherwise.

Windows on ARM is probably fine. Windows Phone and the like eventually lost (losing? I haven’t kept up) support, but phones are traditionally a 2ish year supported device and then they’re not targeted (specifically in the Android OEM arena). Windows proper they have business clients and if they don’t support it for a reasonable amount of time, Microsoft is basically hosed. It is, I imagine, why once they decided to kill off older IEs everything prior to latest and greatest was killed at the same time: they had supported them for far too long and it required killing them all Off in one move.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#152

Post by sureaboutthis »

danso wrote: post #110
astrodust wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That's why people are still super nervous whenever Microsoft dares to embrace something new. Past experience. I'm not saying they're like that today, but that's why some people get all on-edge when Microsoft does things like this.

But he’s not the CEO any longer and he hasn’t been for years. So why is what he did more than a decade ago relevant absent of evidence that he has any direct control of the company today?

He's only been gone for five years. The Titanic didn't turn fast enough to miss the iceberg either.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#153

Post by sureaboutthis »

smadurange wrote: post #84
orev wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me” I try to be objective as much as possible, but having witnessed almost all of Microsoft’s behavior through history, we have been fooled 100s if not 1000s of times. How many times do you let the fox back into the hen house? The only thing I think when I read recent “Microsoft is so great” comments is that the person is either too young to have any real knowledge…

Or you are just so bogged down in history that you have a difficulty changing your opinion. Few decades is a long time in our line of work. Microsoft didn't change out of charity or ethics. They were forced by the direction industry was heading as a whole. Cloud, opensource software, Google, AWS started making Microsoft irrelevant unless they changed.

Microsoft was under US Federal oversight until 2011. Ballmer was still President just five years ago.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#155

Post by sectiondetail »

nirui wrote: post #112
throwaway2048 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or at least Microsoft Visual R++

That will be very sad if it's the case. One reason of why I'm using Rust is because it's built by a group of people that I like, and Microsoft is not on that list. However, I always keep a open-mind, I mean, I don't see anybody will be hurt if Microsoft become a direct contributor of Rust language itself. In fact, I could like Microsoft a bit if they did invest in Rust. I hope they do that instead of trying to fork t…

I'm about as old-school anti-Microsoft as it gets (I had a 4-digit slashdot ID!) but even I have to admit that they've been pretty serious in offering olive branches to the broader open source community in the past decade. I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If someone had told me ten years ago that my favourite code editing environment on the Linux desktop ten years later would be browser-tech-based, MIT-licensed, and made by Microsoft, I'd have stared at them like they had just grown a second head. But here we are. Interesting times, man.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#156

Post by LessDmesg »

pjmlp wrote: post #129
LessDmesg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This so much! Go would be a great language if it had generics and no "interface {}". I'd use that over any flavor of Rust any day.

Here, https://dlang.org/

D is pretty much the opposite of Go, a pinnacle of feature bloat instead of stripped down simplicity. A C++ killer that turned into a kind of C++ with GC.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#157

Post by LessDmesg »

olodus wrote: post #143
LessDmesg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This so much! Go would be a great language if it had generics and no "interface {}". I'd use that over any flavor of Rust any day.

Zig's comptime is a very simple and minimalistic but still incredibly useful and strong approach to generics. I think that could fit into a language like that. I many ways I find Zig as keeping the minimalism trait that Go has (which they both take from C). But I get that people want a gc sometimes.

Zig is beautiful, I'm having high hopes for it.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#158

Post by deogeo »

pjmlp wrote: post #61
deogeo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As part of the BSA, they still lobby for software patents today . The OOXML Office format they used to continue pushing Office lock-in is very recent: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_OOXML They tried their best to keep the list of their Android patents secret, so that they could not be worked around, and they abused their patent on the FAT filesystem as recently as 2012: https://www.howtogeek.com/1837…

Less propaganda that the whole "do no evil" stuff. Windows 10 telemetry is a child's game compared how much Google and FB spy on people's lives, yet most MS haters just jump of joy to use any tech that comes out from them. Legions of US parents just put their kids under Google surveillance getting them Chromebooks.

I am not one of those MS haters - I dislike Google just as much.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#159

Post by classified »

Animats wrote: post #43

I'm curious to see what Microsoft does. The big breakthrough with Rust was ownership, and Microsoft seems to agree on that. Rust has a lot of other baggage that could be dispensed with. Of course, Microsoft has their own baggage.

There should be no doubt about the agenda: Embrace, extend and extinguish.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#160

Post by pjmlp »

LessDmesg wrote: post #156
pjmlp wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, https://dlang.org/

D is pretty much the opposite of Go, a pinnacle of feature bloat instead of stripped down simplicity. A C++ killer that turned into a kind of C++ with GC.

Go would be have an interesting language in 1986 [0], or in 1995 [1].

As it stands, it is forced to follow some of Java design mistakes by not integrating modern features and then being forced to actually adopt them in a half-baked way due to market pressure, while striving not to break backwards compatibility with existing code.

Modern C++ also uses GC, even it is opt-in.

And several modern C++ features actually originated in D.

D has the benefit of not being constrained by C copy-paste compatibility like C++.

But yeah, it suffers from having a tiny community.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(programming_language)

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_(programming_language)

Post reply on HN