How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers • Hacker News Board

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#191

Post by beefield » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #106

beefield wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the more important regulations big tech should be subjected to in my opinion. Let me pay for the services I use, with believable guarantees that my data is not used or sold in any way by the service provider. And regulate the cost to be a reasonable margin over production costs of these services. Hosting my hosting my posts and photos should not be that expensive.

I've seen lots of people say this but like maybe a fraction of people use GSuite like I do (even my phone number is on my GSuite). Big talk from HN usually. Maybe you'll do it but a fraction of people do. There are no ads in GSuite mail. So you take the fraction of people who will do that and see if it's worth building. Answer: it's not worth it for practically anyone. It's like building a Bitcoin integration. Everyo…

Can you also use google search without ads & tracking?

I do not claim that it would be good business from big tech. Vice versa. That's why they would need to be regulated to offer that. To me, it would not even matter if it was pretty much nobody using that paid service. Just having the option would be important.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#192

Post by dangerface » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

JulianMorrison wrote: post #150

1propionyl wrote: post #53

I'm surprised I haven't seen a single comment say what ought to be the obvious: the easiest way to never see Facebook ads is to just not use Facebook. I should hope I'm preaching to the choir, I'm sure, but... quitting really isn't as hard as you tell yourself it is. It's not as essential as you think it is.

Things I pragmatically need Facebook (including Messenger) for: - My martial arts classes post updates there - So does the community garden I help out at - Keeping up with family news, and directly talking to family - Keeping up with what's happening to my friends in the USA or other far flung places - Access to topical news that matches my political beliefs rather than being heavily centrist-biased and ignoring all…

Email does all that.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#193

Post by beefield » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #89

beefield wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the more important regulations big tech should be subjected to in my opinion. Let me pay for the services I use, with believable guarantees that my data is not used or sold in any way by the service provider. And regulate the cost to be a reasonable margin over production costs of these services. Hosting my hosting my posts and photos should not be that expensive.

“believable guarantees” lol If it can be scraped and stored, FB will do it just because. And then apologize if caught, but keep storing it. Because why not? They figure, if it can be stored, someone is doing it. They can take every advantage they can get for their “friends you may know...” and user retention.

It's not that difficult if there is a will. Just let big tech know that if they break this law, they are going to be fined all the way to bankrupty without hesitation. Once shareholders have lost their money, government as the biggest debtor will sell the company back to market. Couple of rounds of this and even the more stubborn company starts to think differently.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#194

Post by tguedes » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

tomashubelbauer wrote: post #72

1propionyl wrote: post #53

I'm surprised I haven't seen a single comment say what ought to be the obvious: the easiest way to never see Facebook ads is to just not use Facebook. I should hope I'm preaching to the choir, I'm sure, but... quitting really isn't as hard as you tell yourself it is. It's not as essential as you think it is.

I'd like to add that it is not necessary to leave Facebook to not use Facebook. I have a FB account and I'll never close it, because I like having my username on all online services I might use if once. That being said I only have it logged in at a home desktop, not my phone, not any work machine. I use it for like two minutes weekly, one to check a few specialty groups I'm a lurker in and two to co-admin a page with…

I used to do this as well until it got to the point where family members would get upset if I didn't like or post a comment on something they posted. I left facebook because it was only a negative in my life.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#195

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #161

notafraudster wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"do everything they can to monetize" Except, evidently, allow users to pay money to not be subjected to ads.

Wouldn't work. Spending money on anything puts people on the disposable income demographic which is the exact audience the advertisers want to reach. It's impossible to reach a workable compromise with the advertising industry. They don't care about our convenience and would place ads under our eyelids if they could get away with it. The truth is we're way past the point of peaceful negotiation with the advertising i…

> Spending money on anything puts people on the disposable income demographic which is the exact audience the advertisers want to reach.

Why do we care what advertisers want? Use regulation to force ad-funded companies to allow people to pay the average revenue per user to opt-out of ads and forbid using the fact they’re paying as a signal to raise prices.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#196

Post by wayneftw » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

What happens when screen readers can't identify things properly? Can Facebook be sued for not providing proper accessibility, given that their site is deemed to be essential by many?

If screen readers can identify something as an advertisement, then so should ad blockers be able to. If not... then aren't we depriving the blind and the sight challenged from valuable advertising equality?

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#197

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #89

beefield wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the more important regulations big tech should be subjected to in my opinion. Let me pay for the services I use, with believable guarantees that my data is not used or sold in any way by the service provider. And regulate the cost to be a reasonable margin over production costs of these services. Hosting my hosting my posts and photos should not be that expensive.

“believable guarantees” lol If it can be scraped and stored, FB will do it just because. And then apologize if caught, but keep storing it. Because why not? They figure, if it can be stored, someone is doing it. They can take every advantage they can get for their “friends you may know...” and user retention.

If they’re forced to offer a paid tier without ads for a fixed price then their incentive would be to do so in the most profitable way possible by reducing engineering overheads & the cost of storing that data.

Currently they do it because they assume there’s a correlation between the extents to which they violate your privacy and revenue. If the revenue is locked static then this breaks down and the incentives change.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#198

Post by seapunk » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

gorgoiler wrote: post #108

Relatedly, uBlock Origin’s picker has really improved my quality of life on Facebook. I love Facebook, it’s my only remaining connection to some people, and it’s revived many friendships I thought I’d lost. However, as one gets on in life, People You May Know can be extremely emotionally impactful. It is a little part of the web UI that brings back the dead, ex partners I still miss, exes who have moved on, and toxic…

I'm glad to read your comment. I I still remember the good times of Facebook, it was a great to see this little website with a lot people connecting with friends and also total strangers, that being said People You May Know is indeed bad because this feature never really took care of your history with the suggested accounts.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#199

Post by taneq » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

seapunk wrote: post #198

gorgoiler wrote: post #108

Relatedly, uBlock Origin’s picker has really improved my quality of life on Facebook. I love Facebook, it’s my only remaining connection to some people, and it’s revived many friendships I thought I’d lost. However, as one gets on in life, People You May Know can be extremely emotionally impactful. It is a little part of the web UI that brings back the dead, ex partners I still miss, exes who have moved on, and toxic…

I'm glad to read your comment. I I still remember the good times of Facebook, it was a great to see this little website with a lot people connecting with friends and also total strangers, that being said People You May Know is indeed bad because this feature never really took care of your history with the suggested accounts.

Yeah, that one is bad. If someone was recently tagged as your partner and now is not tagged as your friend, you probably don’t want them suggested as an exciting new person you might add.

Re: How Facebook Avoids Ad Blockers

#200

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Dec 03, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #106

beefield wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the more important regulations big tech should be subjected to in my opinion. Let me pay for the services I use, with believable guarantees that my data is not used or sold in any way by the service provider. And regulate the cost to be a reasonable margin over production costs of these services. Hosting my hosting my posts and photos should not be that expensive.

I've seen lots of people say this but like maybe a fraction of people use GSuite like I do (even my phone number is on my GSuite). Big talk from HN usually. Maybe you'll do it but a fraction of people do. There are no ads in GSuite mail. So you take the fraction of people who will do that and see if it's worth building. Answer: it's not worth it for practically anyone. It's like building a Bitcoin integration. Everyo…

> I've seen lots of people say this but like maybe a fraction of people use GSuite like I do (even my phone number is on my GSuite).

GSuite is, quite famously, not equivalent to Google's consumer offerings except for ads. It's an enterprise targeted service with some extra enterprise features but delayed, if any, access to lots of features that go to the consumer versions.

Plus, the consumer versions of many of the pieces in GSuite also don't have ads.

So, it's really not a good barometer for how many people would swap out an ad-infested service for an otherwise-equivalent paid ad-free service.