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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

471–480 of 560 posts

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like with each generation we become used to a little less freedom and a little more control. This has probably been true to a certain extent ever since we began organizing into tribes. However, I would put forward that even if you aggregate all of the liberty concessions humankind has made for the last few millennia, it would pale in comparison to the supreme control afforded by technological improvements…

Yes things certainly are moving faster then ever before. I do quite wonder where it is were going

Bad places. But no one will care, because as long as you’re a good little obedient humming bee that doesn’t make noise outside the status quo, you will be safe and fine and ignored.

Fahrenheit 451 is a view of that future.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#472
post #445
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be called draconian by Republicans and the NRA, look how they react to any increase in gun laws today. Of course blue states get closer to the Swiss laws but IIRC no state has any kind of background check on ammunition [0] or universal gun registries both of which are part of the Swiss system. [0] It would be practically impossible to enforce because states can't put up barriers from things coming into the…

They would be called draconian by Republicans and the NRA, look how they react to any increase in gun laws today. That's because those increases are never compromises or exchanges. They are simply demands. Republicans and the NRA look at what the gun laws in DC and Chicago were before the Supreme Court cases and think: "That's their end game. Zero guns. Because look: when they had the political power to take them awa…

Why would you demand "exchange" to introduce a law that is sensible and has positive impact? You don't have drivers' association demanding privileges in exchange for penalizing drunk driving or restricting maximum speed.

The whole NRA situation in USA seems so absurd from outside.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#473
post #406

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Comments like this look absolutely insane to anyone outside the US. Look at the numbers: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/school-shooting-us-ver...

> Comments like this look absolutely insane to anyone outside the US No, it looks insane to the 6 countries mentioned in your article that have significantly less schools shootings. The other 188 countries in the world are purposely not discussed, since many of them have extremely high violent crime rates despite restrictive gun control laws...

USA has 12.21 gun-related deaths per 100,000 population per year. It's 10th highest in the world, and all the countries higher up aren't considered developed.

19th highest in the world is Argentina and it has less than half the deaths US has.

In top 30 there are countries with less than 1/4th the deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this look absolutely insane to anyone outside the US. Look at the numbers: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/school-shooting-us-ver...

I agree, let's look at the numbers. ~ 300 school shootings in ten years averages out to 30 a year. There are about 100,000 schools in the US. That's a risk rate of 0.03% per school per year risk. Considering that very few people within a given school die per attack, this means that your risk of being killed in a school shooting is basically negligible. Further, your article talks about ANY shooting on school grounds…

> risk rate of 0.03% per school per year risk. Considering that very few people within a given school die per attack, this means that your risk of being killed in a school shooting is basically negligible. Further, your article talks about ANY shooting on school grounds including gang shootings, domestic violence (adults), and accidental firearms discharges

Using the same criteria there were 0 gun-related deaths in schools in my country (10% of USA population) in last 50 years, probably more. And it's not hard - you simply have to be rational and control the guns where it's easy (at the point they enter the market, when they enter the market) instead of controlling them where it's hard (in every school every day).

It's the low-hanging fruit of death prevention. It would save you money and hassle (no need to check every kid every time it enters the school, no need for transparent backpacks and all that security theater).

> If you want controls to stop school shootings anyway then why not just put in place general healthy population controls: stop bullying, keep a cop visibly on school grounds to deter criminality, engage with parents, and create a healthy environment for learning. All of that costs basically zero dollars and would likely do far more overall good than these silly, expensive, and invasive surveillance systems.

You should do all these things anyway (except for keeping cop in every school - that's just absurd and shows how far into irrationality USA has gone).

> All of that costs basically zero

Hiring 100 000 cops full-time costs basically zero? I would disagree :)

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#475
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're choosing to brush it off because it represents a small percentage of the population. That is what you concluded from what I am saying. Why did you conclude that? > you could hold the same if school shooting fatalities were in the 10,000s instead of 200s; too insignificant Oh but look at those magnitudes! > You're either a) tacitly saying that the certainty of future school shootings is absolutely fine with y…

> That is what you concluded from what I am saying. Why did you conclude that? > Oh but look at those magnitudes! You're saying again exactly what you're being cute about in the first sentence. Not much to deduce here. > I did not intend to say either of those things. That's your interpretation. But again, why did you think that? My take: A good chunk of the population in the US is sold on alarmism and "something nee…

> cons who don't give a fuck

Well thanks.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#477
post #403

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In some countries like the UK, even adults are discouraged and disallowed from carrying folding knives anywhere. Scenes like this are commonplace: https://twitter.com/MPSRegentsPark/status/974645778558980096

Okay, I was scrolling through this feed to find some proof that this is a joke account. But they are actually serious, right? Are there laws in the UK that allow the police to enter your house and steal all your tools? For people who didn't click on the link: It is a picture with literally nothing but tools supposedly found during a "#weaponSweep" This is fucking dystopian

I have all the knives they found in the wooden block in my kitchen. I would look like an arms dealer to them.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes things certainly are moving faster then ever before. I do quite wonder where it is were going

Bad places. But no one will care, because as long as you’re a good little obedient humming bee that doesn’t make noise outside the status quo, you will be safe and fine and ignored. Fahrenheit 451 is a view of that future.

In China, definitely. They are halfway there, using Orwell's 1984 as a playbook now that the right tech innovations have made big brother surveillance possible.

Will it happen in the U.S.? Definitely not. Political influence on daily life is astoundingly weak here compared to China. Government is far more efficient in China too and can manage big projects like this (whereas the U.S. recently took 100 years to build a new subway line in Manhattan while China is criss crossing their vast country with high speed rail and probably hundreds of other transit projects).

Our knack for mismanagement of contracts and political disunity save us from ourselves. Plus you don't get sent to death camps for your political or religious ideology here unlike China and Oceana in 1984, so there isn't much worry even if one were built unless you are one to go off robbing and killing.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably won’t even feel safe without it.

From what I've heard of students, the surveillance they are under is a constant reminder that they are "not safe". People are just now starting to study what should have always been obvious: that active shooter drills are traumatic to students [1]. These topics are much easier to tackle than the real issues effecting students. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/11/10/778015261/experts-worry-activ...

Who would have thought being told to corral like cattle under a table to rehearse waiting for rapid fire death wouldn't inspire much confidence.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they will observe the world doesn't burn down around them with this level of surveillance in place and will come to find it normal. Which may very well be fine; perhaps it's a useful normal.

The world won't burn down, they'll just slowly and quietly lose their freedom over the course of decades. They might not even notice, since it will happen invisibly through self-censorship and implied consequences. The very idea of freedom will seem useless in their own hands and frightening in others'. Control will be centralized liberalism will give way to fear. Everything will keep moving, but the people will not…

What freedom is being lost that isn't already lost. You go to the grocery store? The mall? The ball park? City hall? Your doctors office? Your college? The package room at your apartment? The airport? The train station? The gas station?

All currently under surveillance and have been since the invention of the security camera. No one bats an eye, these are to document crimes that have occurred.

Suddenly public schools also use cameras for the same purpose, and this is where the line is drawn? Personally, I feel much more comfortable having a government that represents me and offers me a recourse in charge of security footage than some asshole who runs the gas station and does who knows what with the footage when he gets home.

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