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Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

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Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#41

Post by wisty »

nostrademons wrote: post #28
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #15

Huxley and Orwell saw two dystopian futures in different ways: one, totalitarian and ever watchful government. The other, a society robbed of cognitive and personal agency via societal pressure and medication. When I was young, I thought Orwell's future was the most dangerous an imminent. Then later Huxley, especially once things like "apps" were created. Now I see they both work together to erode liberty. Your cultu…

The weird thing, if you study history and step outside the culture you were raised in, is to realize that Huxley and Orwell were both describing the world they were writing in , not some hypothetical future. 1984 is based on Orwell's experiences writing propaganda for the BBC during WW2; 19 84 was intentionally chosen by switching the last two digits of the year it was written, 19 48 . Brave New World is a Depression…

1984 was basically a sci-fi adaption of Koestler's Darkness at Noon, which was based on the real-life Moscow Trials. Orwell had read (and favourable reviewed) Darkness. He also used a lot of similar details (Rubashov even had a tooth-ache that flared up for dramatic effect much like Winston's varicose vein).

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#42

Post by Thorentis »

heavyset_go wrote: post #34
Thorentis wrote: post #26

More importantly, he predicted the rise of The Pill (birth control) very eerily too. And the long term effect that it will have on civilization is undeniable. Whatever your stance on the pill, I think it is naive to think that it will not have a lasting and deep impact on western civilization (and as it spreads globally, to all of human civilization). Never before has sex been able to be had without consequence. Or t…

> Sure, the world has a lot of people. But a civilization that by default, does not want to produce children? (As Huxley envisioned, and as I think will be the case in the coming decades) is headed for sure collapse. Contraception and abortifacients have existed for millennia. People in the developed world are choosing not have children because of costs. Having children in the developing world is an investment that i…

The drive to develop them has existed for millennia, sure. But never as reliably or safely as they exist now. The fact that it is so accessible and there is very little stigma around it, is what will change our civilization and culture. The way Huxley depicts it in Brave New World, is the direction it is heading in. And we are at the forefront of that right now for the first time in human history.

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#43

Post by Thorentis »

rtpg wrote: post #37
Thorentis wrote: post #26

More importantly, he predicted the rise of The Pill (birth control) very eerily too. And the long term effect that it will have on civilization is undeniable. Whatever your stance on the pill, I think it is naive to think that it will not have a lasting and deep impact on western civilization (and as it spreads globally, to all of human civilization). Never before has sex been able to be had without consequence. Or t…

Sorry but this is not a narrative rooted in reality. People don’t not want kids. Lots of people want kids at the right time. Others want it but find they would be unable to provide for their children due to a generation and a half of wage stagnation, along with women not wanting to have to change their profession to “full time childcare”. Giving people access to childcare is documented to work. There isn’t some magic…

> People don’t not want kids.

I'm not sure which Gen Z's you've spoken to recently, but the next generations certainly want kids much less than previous generations. And this trend will only continue. We have seen family sizes continually drop, until now the average is about 2. That will soon drop below 1 where most people do not have children. Give it 30-40 years max.

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#44

Post by Eric_WVGG »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #15

Huxley and Orwell saw two dystopian futures in different ways: one, totalitarian and ever watchful government. The other, a society robbed of cognitive and personal agency via societal pressure and medication. When I was young, I thought Orwell's future was the most dangerous an imminent. Then later Huxley, especially once things like "apps" were created. Now I see they both work together to erode liberty. Your cultu…

Neil Postman wrote about this at length in _Amusing Ourselves to Death_. There's a classic comic strip based on it: https://highexistence.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-huxley-...

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#45

Post by Alex3917 »

drongoking wrote: post #38
Alex3917 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Valium (and benzodiazepines in general) aren't prescribed as much these days because of their addictive potential. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/6882878... What were the prescription rates in the 60s?

I'm genuinely surprised. Maybe it's just for psych ailments (e.g. anxiety) that use has declined. > the biggest rise in prescriptions during this time period was for back pain and other types of chronic pain. Now I'm doubly surprised. Some benzos have muscle relaxant properties but I've never heard of them prescribed for pain. (I've never experienced benzo withdrawal but I've heard it claimed to be as bad as opiate w…

> Some benzos have muscle relaxant properties but I've never heard of them prescribed for pain.

Back pain is thought to be mostly psychological, so it makes sense. Also, if you have minor tears or congenital defects in tissue around your spinal cord then anxiety can cause inflammation, which can then cause your spinal fluid to push against your actual spinal cord and cause all sorts of problems. (Or something like this, I'm not a doctor but that's the basic idea.)

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#46

Post by Thorentis »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #15

Huxley and Orwell saw two dystopian futures in different ways: one, totalitarian and ever watchful government. The other, a society robbed of cognitive and personal agency via societal pressure and medication. When I was young, I thought Orwell's future was the most dangerous an imminent. Then later Huxley, especially once things like "apps" were created. Now I see they both work together to erode liberty. Your cultu…

I read both books one after the other a while ago to compare them. I think there are aspects of both that are becoming reality (or have been reality for some time), but can absolutely say that Huxley was closer to predicting the future (at least in the West).

The rise of mass media (hollywood, netflix), pornography, the pill (and other forms of contraception), large expendable incomes, smart phones, pharmaceuticals - the world now is basically Huxley's + a bit of a Orwellian propaganda sprinkled on top to keep you in Huxley's world.

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#47

Post by [deleted] »

Thorentis wrote: post #43
rtpg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but this is not a narrative rooted in reality. People don’t not want kids. Lots of people want kids at the right time. Others want it but find they would be unable to provide for their children due to a generation and a half of wage stagnation, along with women not wanting to have to change their profession to “full time childcare”. Giving people access to childcare is documented to work. There isn’t some magic…

> People don’t not want kids. I'm not sure which Gen Z's you've spoken to recently, but the next generations certainly want kids much less than previous generations. And this trend will only continue. We have seen family sizes continually drop, until now the average is about 2. That will soon drop below 1 where most people do not have children. Give it 30-40 years max.

[deleted]

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#48

Post by narag »

nostrademons wrote: post #28
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #15

Huxley and Orwell saw two dystopian futures in different ways: one, totalitarian and ever watchful government. The other, a society robbed of cognitive and personal agency via societal pressure and medication. When I was young, I thought Orwell's future was the most dangerous an imminent. Then later Huxley, especially once things like "apps" were created. Now I see they both work together to erode liberty. Your cultu…

The weird thing, if you study history and step outside the culture you were raised in, is to realize that Huxley and Orwell were both describing the world they were writing in , not some hypothetical future. 1984 is based on Orwell's experiences writing propaganda for the BBC during WW2; 19 84 was intentionally chosen by switching the last two digits of the year it was written, 19 48 . Brave New World is a Depression…

A lot of good sci-fi is predicting the present. Lilliput was a criticism of religious disputes at the time: how to break eggs.

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#49

Post by larnmar »

nostrademons wrote: post #31
claudeganon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the Opium Wars which managed to reduce the greatest civilization on earth to a bunch of drug addicts within a few decades. This too sounds familiar... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-22/deadly-ch...

Yup. There's a certain irony how, a century and a half after Britain and the U.S. managed to reduce the greatest civilization on earth to a bunch of drug addicts and trigger a civil war and the fall of the empire, the rump state of that civilization is now reducing the new greatest civilization on earth to a bunch of drug addicts, triggering the fall of its empire and a potential civil war.

Are we overreacting a little? Drug addiction is a serious problem, as it has been for many decades, but it’s not on the verge of collapsing US society. The vast majority of people aren’t addicted to opiates and aren’t going to become addicted to opiates, and of those they are... well, most of them would otherwise be addicted to something else anyway.

Re: Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

#50

Post by larnmar »

shams93 wrote: post #20
drongoking wrote: post #9

I hate to be That Guy Who Argues With Everything, but I will. I'm a big fan of Huxley and Brave New World, but he wasn't particularly visionary with Soma. Drug use goes back as far as humankind does because people have been trying to cope with the stress of life since there have been people. If you're looking for a drug that helps with the anxieties of everyday life, alcohol would have my vote. It's been used for tho…

What is interesting is that the same family owned company that created oxycontin also created valium originally. Amazing to think of how much damage one family owned business has done (Purdue Pharma) to an entire nation.

On the other hand, think of how much good has been done by the legitimate medical use of those drugs.
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