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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

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Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#411

Post by mrguyorama »

nabnob wrote: post #265
mywittyname wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard of students, the surveillance they are under is a constant reminder that they are "not safe". People are just now starting to study what should have always been obvious: that active shooter drills are traumatic to students [1]. These topics are much easier to tackle than the real issues effecting students. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/11/10/778015261/experts-worry-activ...

I remember seeing a post on reddit from a school teacher describing the active shooter training they received from a local police department. Apparently it just turned into an opportunity for the police to berate and shout at the teachers and students.

Police training other people per-supposes that the police officers of the United States are well trained. If they are not, then the training they provide will be even worse

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#412

Post by magduf »

chopin wrote: post #374
detritus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people hate being watched in the old days we'd have God watching over our conscience. now we have cctv.

I prefer god. He at least doesn't talk to other people about his observations.

I prefer CCTV. Then we can actually go look at the footage and see what really happened, instead of arguing pointlessly and having no neutral reference.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#413

Post by CompanionCuuube »

foldr wrote: post #282
homonculus1 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose I'm conflating school shootings with mass shootings which is what most people worry about, a la Columbine or Parkland. The figures in your link are mostly gang violence, which is a completely separate although valid issue. We do absolutely have higher rates of targeted gang violence than other countries, which after controlling for factors like density and poverty is highly correlated to young urban male de…

The figures in the article are literally school shootings , i.e. shootings on school grounds.

Maybe you should reread the comment you are responding to in order to understand why your objection is meaningless in the context of the discussion.

All mass shootings in schools are school shootings, but not all school shootings are mass shootings.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#414

Post by AnimalMuppet »

nguoi wrote: post #220
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone looking to sneak a gun in would be hiding it in their pant's waistband or some other part of their clothes; inversely if they are looking to commit a public atrocity they'll skip the sneaking part altogether. Mandating clear backpacks is just as much security theater as is banning 4 oz liquid containers at the airport

I don't think that's a fair assertion. Even going in through the front doors with guns in their coats, the perpetrators of Columbine massacre used bags full of bombs. >if they are looking to commit a public atrocity they'll... Which gives everyone else a sooner notice to run away. This won't work for e.g. gang violence. >Mandating clear backpacks is just as much security theater as is banning 4 oz liquid containers a…

The bags full of bombs were to kill people after the shooters were dead. They weren't to get in the door. They got in the door by outgunning the security guard (one handgun vs two rifles in a gun battle, so the guard retreated).

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#415

Post by AnimalMuppet »

linuxftw wrote: post #391
umvi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of those guns are sitting around harmlessly in gun collector's lockers. US has a mental illness problem. At some point, a societal sickness entered the country. A sickness of nihilism and hopelessness. A sickness where (mostly men) feel lonely and unloved and powerless to change their futures. A sickness where hatred for peers is harbored for years until it festers and explodes out in a violent way.…

> Why does America have these kinds of people at such high frequencies compared to Switzerland? Public schools.

They don't have public schools in Switzerland? I'm skeptical.

But maybe they have functional public schools...

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#416

Post by forgottenpass »

wbronitsky wrote: post #94
im_with_stupid wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have people teaching nihilism. This is the result of nihilism. If you want to eliminate this problem, then eliminate nihilism. The solution to keep people from killing should focus on teaching others that life is not meaningless or worthless. Also, teaching kids humility wouldn't hurt either. Edit: Perhaps this should be obvious, but teaching about nihilism is not teaching nihilism. People teach nihilism more, if…

Can you explain who is teaching nihilism to whom and where? In school, while I did not have a clear backpack and quite obviously had internet monitoring on someone else’s network, I was never, not once, taught nihilism. In fact, in my education through grade 12, most everything was filtered through a compassionate lens. It’s not like I was taught that the Holocaust will happen again because humans are inherently bad…

>in my education through grade 12, most everything was filtered through a compassionate lens.

The phony compassion delivered by public schooling taught me to be nihilistic. I think that's what the parent poster was getting at. It wasn't a strict adherence to some system I once got a lecture about (because I didn't get one either), but as a natural response to the platitudes they taught.

I could shake off that "wrong" way of thinking because I was under the impression it was abnormal and needed to blend in with the crowd. So in retrospect from writing this post... I guess what they really taught me was doublethink.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#417

Post by jessaustin »

balabaster wrote: post #231
rahuldottech wrote: post #20

THIS IS NOT OKAY. We can't have children being used to constant surveillance and accepting this as a part of life. It sets them up for so many problems in the future, where they won't understand the serious implications of constant tracking and surveillance. And sure, nothing too bad comes out of this stuff right now in most of the world, but have you seen China? The minute a government decides to do so, all that dat…

The flip side of the coin is that kids learn from a very early age what it takes to slip past the surveillance net. The smart ones watch everyone around them get caught for infractions. Taking note. Quietly gathering data. Towing the line, purposely being caught for the occasional minor infraction so as not to appear too good to be true. Until one day, they disappear from prison in the middle of a storm and take the…

This scenario ends up being fairly elitist. Everyone should be free, and not everyone can crawl to freedom through five hundred yards of shit-smelling foulness I can't even imagine -- or maybe I just don't want to. Five hundred yards... that's the length of five football fields; just shy of half a mile.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#418

Post by shadowgovt »

sdinsn wrote: post #396
shadowgovt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most laws restrict some right to make us safer, and most laws succeed at that. For all the vehicular homicides in the US, there'd be more if we didn't require driving on the right-hand-side of the road and not driving on the sidewalk. The question is always where the tradeoff point should be, not whether there's any tradeoff.

The difference is that driving is not a constitutional right.

Indeed, and the number of people who would be interested in a Constitutional convention to discuss that (as well as other things that are assumed necessary for a free and stable American society under just laws) is higher than a younger me would have anticipated.

... but a younger me was born before Columbine.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#419

Post by zulln »

bobbles wrote: post #389
Thriptic wrote: post #155

Poor, emotion driven risk management as usual. School shootings kill very few people per year and are rare events (especially in places that can afford this tech) despite what the New York Times would have you believe. Why not focus efforts on things that actually do kill young people, namely: * Car crashes (teach people to drive more defensively) * Suicides (provide better mental health services) * Violence that occ…

Comments like this look absolutely insane to anyone outside the US. Look at the numbers: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/school-shooting-us-ver...

Yes, US has a lot of school shootings compared to other countries. But it is not like all those other countries use surveillance to prevent it, the problem is elsewhere.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#420

Post by jdkdnfndnfjd »

nrclark wrote: post #218
giancarlostoro wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The right to bear arms was paid for in blood and not just once. And worse, gun restrictions only benefit criminals. There's plenty of people who legally own firearms and protect their homes and their property legally. They also avoid plenty of crime since criminals tend to run when a gun is pulled on them especially in stand your ground states. They've tried banning everything in England and criminals will still ki…

Gun ownership doesn't help public safety anywhere near as much as you think. The number one and number two uses of guns inside a home are suicide and murder of a loved one, respectively. Defending against a home invader is statistically uncommon at best. But people get angry every day, and we all have moments of weakness and vulnerability. To your point about criminals, have you ever been robbed? A robber isn't going…

Some good points but I disagree. I got caught up in a situation where I really needed a gun. You say that guns aren’t useful for street crime. That just isn’t true. My experience made me an overnight 2A advocate. It’s insane that we give all this power and leniency to criminals and strip innocent people of the ability to stand up for themselves. Nobody will ever convince me that guns don’t help because I have lived it. I am living proof that that isn’t true. And it’s a shame that people in liberal communities have to live it in order to understand it.

There are countries with guns and low crime. Uk has no guns but a stabbing epidemic. The key to public safety is preventing crime with good education, opportunity and very generous disincentive, preferably a swift execution for violent crime.

For my particular situation, in the USA, the people who want gun bans are the same people that refuse to let police do stop and frisk. So it just doesn’t make sense for me to give up my right to have a gun. We shouldn’t need a ban in the first place. It’s other things that cause the underlying violent behavior.

You are so right about the civil suit. Especially in liberal states, you might as well just shoot yourself instead of the bad guy. But that’s a problem with the legal system, not guns. The legal system in general is responsible for all kinds of problems. A person who loses their case should have to pay the other persons legal fees, too. Lots to change. In the meantime I’ll defend myself in a way that is legally sound and with a gun camera that automatically captures an image of the guy attacking me before the trigger is pulled.

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