for point of comparison: map of European countries that require ID to buy prepaid sim cards[1], worldwide list[2]
[1] https://i.imgur.com/cCFX1wC.jpg
[2] https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_P...
Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
111–120 of 202 posts
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just drove around Africa, and I bought a pre-paid SIM in about 30 different countries. Every single one of them required a copy of my passport.
In Morocco at least they do ask for your passport if you want free or discounted cell service, but you can always go to a corner store and just get a Sim card from there.
Sure, and it stops working a few days later. I had that happen a few times, then stopped buying SIM cards from random people on the street (or corner stores) and so would go into the actual carrier store (MTN or whatever)
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#113Just offering another perspective than most others had done here: I grew up in China and have been in China a few times in the past 10 years - the amount of Robocalls and phone scams was overwhelming (in fact, it was so bad that dual SIM mobile phones became popular because you can have a disposable SIM card for non-essential website registrations and one for family members that you keep private use). I had my identi…
>It's nearly impossible to sign up for any Chinese website without giving your mobile phone number to complete the sign up.
No wonder the robocalls and phone scams are overwhelming.
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#114for point of comparison: map of European countries that require ID to buy prepaid sim cards[1], worldwide list[2] [1] https://i.imgur.com/cCFX1wC.jpg [2] https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_P...
It's been 10+ years since I signed up for a cell phone. What is required today when you get a new account at the major carriers today in the US?
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#115Not that there's any moral equivalence, but when I'm in Australia visiting in-laws, I have to provide my passport or similar ID to get my PAYG SIM activated. I just have them swipe it at the airport and my SIM is on in 10 minutes. My wife admits it's a lot easier in the States to get a PAYG SIM; AT&T doesn't care who she is as long as there's money in the account. I'm not sure why Australia does that, but it's really…
> I'm not sure why Australia does that, but it's really annoying.
Suppose you buy a PAYG SIM, and then use it to make death threats or bomb hoax calls. Easy for the police to track you down and arrest you. (Of course, they still could using other means, like geolocation, but that could be a lot more work.)
And, of course, it isn't foolproof – one could use a fake ID, one could pay some random poor person to buy it for you using their ID, etc – but, the kind of people who make death threats or bomb hoaxes usually aren't very smart.
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#116The irony is that the people complaining about this are the same ones who are gleefully sharing their personal details and narrative on social media, and Facebook in particular. The only difference between mass surveillance in the US and China is that 99% of the US population happily opts in or doesn't care.
I don't disagree with you, but government compulsion makes this a different animal entirely. The bigger context is that in the US, there is SUPPOSED to be a system in which companies can successfully resist government demands (remember that Apple did this to the FBI when they wanted to crack a criminal's phone passcode), whereas in China, that cannot happen. So yes, people give away their data for stupid conveniences…
> So yes, people give away their data for stupid conveniences, but Facebook/Google etc aren't supposed to share the data with the government. They have done so, as Snowden revealed, so this is by no means a perfect system.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "aren't supposed to"? The phrase sounds like there's a law prohibiting them from giving data to the government. But AFAIK the third party doctrine says you have no expectation of privacy for data that you hand over to third parties, so they're free to hand over data to the government. The only reason they don't is because of possible blowback from customers.
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#117Thank you! The amount of anti-China jingoist sentiment these past months has been unbearable for anyone who does not share a bipolar world view. EDIT: "bipolar" as in "us vs them"
We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21685327 and marked it off-topic.
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, we've put "photo taken" in the title above. Thanks.
It's not "photo taken" https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/12/02/china-tightens-cybersp... A China Unicom customer service representative told AFP that the December 1 “portrait matching” requirement means customers registering for a new phone number may have to record themselves turning their head and blinking.
Thanks—that's a better article. I've switched to the AFP version of it. (Submitted URL was https://www.technologyreview.com/f/614781/all-new-cellphone-...)
Reading it closely, though, the evidence on the face-scanning point seems weak. The source is a customer service representative who said may. That's two weak points: a customer service representative is not who you'd normally ask about policy, and "may" also means "may not". Also, that's the only thing that particular source is quoted about.
I'm not sure what to do, because there doesn't seem to be anything unambiguous in the English-language press. All the articles I've looked are reporting on the same directive that was issued in Sept and took effect Dec 1. So I guess we'll quote the directive in the title above. If anyone can suggest a more accurate title we can change it again.
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without agreeing or disagreeing with them, we should accept that people have said exactly the same things about the USA, about the Soviet Union, about Russia, about Britain... And on and on. I am not trying to play “whatabout,” but I do ask: Is there anything different about China’s behaviour as a superpower? Or are we just seeing a shift in which superpowers have world influence? At the moment I write this, the fron…
I think comparisons like this ignore something fundamental, which is the values that both countries champion. The USA is a democracy and has by and large championed democracy around the world. China is ruled by a 1974 style dictatorship, a country ruled by a single Party not the rule of law. Comparisons between the US and the CCP conveniently ignore this, yet it is what really matters. Law enforcement will always exi…
> The USA is a democracy and has by and large championed democracy around the world.
Citation needed.
The counter-argument is that USA has subverted democracies in its sphere of influence and backed harsh, authoritarian regimes when it suited its interests, just like all other Superpowers to date.
It’s not even clear that the US champions democracies within its own borders these days, what with all the gerrymandering, voter suppression, laws prohibiting “felons” or prisoners from voting, the electoral college, and so on.
Was 2016 a democratic election? America seems divided on whether there was interference from Russia, and if so, whether America condemns it or actually supports it.
After all, your current President actually asked Russia to find dirt on his opponent during the election in a “HaHaOnlySerious” way, and the country now seems divided on whether he exerted pressure on the Ukraine to subvert American democracy, and if he did, whether that is a bad thing or not.
I’m not saying that the USA is a harsh authoritarian state in 2019, but please understand that once you leave the echo chamber of people chanting “USA! USA!,’ it isn’t always crystal clear to the rest of the world that America walks its talk.
Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect. I think one would have to be especially naive to believe that an ID requirement is in place without any provision for usage monitoring.
Do you think someone is monitoring your landline?
Well, we've been assured by the likes of James Clapper that no one is listening, so...