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Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

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Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#91

Post by frollo »

Erwin wrote: post #68

SIM cards bought in Italy have long required showing photo ID in person and also some kind of SSN like number used for various financial transactions. I needed to acquire that fiscal SSN when buying wine from an Italian web shop but weirdly it's a computed value, not a unique ID you get from some organization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fiscal_code

The Codice Fiscale is supposed to be a unique value you get from the State (via the Agenzia delle Entrate), but the whole system is so outdated and badly designed that most websites just check that the inserted code corresponds to the data you inserted.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#92

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

dang wrote: post #58
walrus01 wrote: post #28

Canadian here: Ezra Levant is far, far right. He was part of the now defunct Sun news Network. This may be a case of a broken clock being right twice a day. He's basically the Canadian version of Breitbart.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21685294 and marked it off-topic.

thanks!

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#93

Post by qxnqd »

Erwin wrote: post #68

SIM cards bought in Italy have long required showing photo ID in person and also some kind of SSN like number used for various financial transactions. I needed to acquire that fiscal SSN when buying wine from an Italian web shop but weirdly it's a computed value, not a unique ID you get from some organization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fiscal_code

SIM cards bought in Spain require you to show your ID card, which means the authorities can link such SIM to your name, your face, and your fingerprints.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#94

Post by kevcampb »

dang wrote: post #54
crazygringo wrote: post #50

The title sounds intentionally provocative -- "face scanned" appears to be just "have their photo taken". I can't find a single source that suggests anything more than that. Which isn't much different from having your photo taken for your driver's license, passport, or at the border, all of which the US does. Burner phones are mostly associated with criminal activity, so tying phones to identities feels like a legiti…

Ok, we've put "photo taken" in the title above. Thanks.

It's not "photo taken"

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/12/02/china-tightens-cybersp...

A China Unicom customer service representative told AFP that the December 1 “portrait matching” requirement means customers registering for a new phone number may have to record themselves turning their head and blinking.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#95

Post by StanislavPetrov »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #69
deogeo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There absolutely is moral equivalence - they're trying to cut off all means of anonymous communication. It's difficult to get a SIM without providing ID in the EU as well, and you have to provide ID when renting a room. I wish the media were always sensitive to privacy erosion, not just when China does it. I guess using Chinese surveillance tech is a roundabout way of getting them to pay attention, as happened with t…

Having a requirement to link a SIM to an individual is not privacy erosion. It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect. Furthermore, this just puts mobile phones on par with landlines. It used to be that having a phone meant having a landline at home, and obviously that meant knowing exactly who a number belonged to. There needs to be a balance for everything in the real world…

>Having a requirement to link a SIM to an individual is not privacy erosion.

You're right, its not privacy erosion, its privacy annihilation.

>It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect.

Its not up to you or the government to decide what "aspects" of my privacy are important. Privacy is a basic human right and fundamental to human liberty and dignity. Attempts by governments and others to eliminate human freedom and privacy because of the inherent risks that freedom pose should be opposed by everyone.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#96

Post by deogeo »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #69
deogeo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There absolutely is moral equivalence - they're trying to cut off all means of anonymous communication. It's difficult to get a SIM without providing ID in the EU as well, and you have to provide ID when renting a room. I wish the media were always sensitive to privacy erosion, not just when China does it. I guess using Chinese surveillance tech is a roundabout way of getting them to pay attention, as happened with t…

Having a requirement to link a SIM to an individual is not privacy erosion. It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect. Furthermore, this just puts mobile phones on par with landlines. It used to be that having a phone meant having a landline at home, and obviously that meant knowing exactly who a number belonged to. There needs to be a balance for everything in the real world…

> And even most Western countries have concluded that requiring IDs for SIM cards is a necessary measure.

> (As for renting a room, it would be crazy for a landlord not to know who their tenant is just for practical reasons considering land and tenancy laws in most EU countries)

That's circular reasoning, and could be applied to any law.

Edit: How it's circular reasoning:

"The law is necessary because it has been enacted."

"It's necessary to collect ID when renting a room, because the law requires it."

As for how "most Western countries determined it was necessary" - there weren't exactly large, public debates and demands as happened for e.g. gay rights, were there? The laws just came about, very discreetly.

Edit2, due to posting limit: I did no conflating - my point applies to both your statements, separately.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#97

Post by StanislavPetrov »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #89
jen20 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect. I think one would have to be especially naive to believe that an ID requirement is in place without any provision for usage monitoring.

Do you think someone is monitoring your landline?

It is absolutely beyond dispute that all communications are being monitored at all times by a variety of government and non-governmental agencies. Being forced to link your identity to these communications is yet another step down towards absolute tyranny (and we are already near the bottom step).

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#98

Post by deogeo »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #89
jen20 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect. I think one would have to be especially naive to believe that an ID requirement is in place without any provision for usage monitoring.

Do you think someone is monitoring your landline?

This has been known for a fact for the last 13 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Edit: Downvotes for a factual answer? Pathetic.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#99

Post by analyst74 »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #11

They are already monitoring the chat apps. If you say unseemly things, expect this: https://twitter.com/intypython/status/1200466904734785536?s=... Edit: changed link to original source

This looks horrible, is it confirmed to be true? Why would HK police release video like that, I imagine they would like to keep the interrogations and tortures under the radar?

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#100

Post by mytailorisrich »

deogeo wrote: post #96
mytailorisrich wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a requirement to link a SIM to an individual is not privacy erosion. It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect. Furthermore, this just puts mobile phones on par with landlines. It used to be that having a phone meant having a landline at home, and obviously that meant knowing exactly who a number belonged to. There needs to be a balance for everything in the real world…

> And even most Western countries have concluded that requiring IDs for SIM cards is a necessary measure. > (As for renting a room, it would be crazy for a landlord not to know who their tenant is just for practical reasons considering land and tenancy laws in most EU countries) That's circular reasoning, and could be applied to any law. Edit: How it's circular reasoning: "The law is necessary because it has been ena…

How is that circular reasoning?

Edit: I have seen your edit.

I did not write that. You are conflating 2 unrelated topics and 2 unrelated parts of my comment although they were clearly separated.

In many countries IDs are not required by law in order to rent a house (afaik). In the UK (which I know most) it only became a requirement a couple of years ago, specifically to check that the prospective tenant was not an illegal immigrant (in fact the requirement is not to check IDs but not to rent to illegal immigrants...)

Landlords require an ID quite independently of any legal requirement because it does not make sense to entrust a real property to someone if you do not know who they are due to the financial liability and the legal procedures required to evict.

In some commercial and legal relations it simply does make sense to assert the identity of the other party.

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