How long before redox will run on my surface?
Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
31–40 of 207 posts
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
The penalty for trusting a stranger who shouldn't be trusted is much higher than the other way around.
In the world of for profit corporations I rather trust MS than any of the FAANG.
I think the amount of trust depends on the team and what they are supposed to deliver. For example, I think that VS Code and Power BI teams can be trusted to have monthly updates that improve the product. But on the other hand, I am never able to trust MS on shipping any language features, as I got burnt so hard by .NET Core 1.0 and F# tooling in VS2017.
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#33Video where this was introduced, which has more details: https://vimeo.com/376180843 Slides: https://www.slideshare.net/KTNUK/digital-security-by-design-...
The slides don't really add much detail. They're just a light introduction to the sort of region-based memory management that was already being used by Cyclone, well before the Rust project was even a thing.
The video explains more:
- Need to keep old insecure code around, too much money to rewrite the world from scratch in Rust, C#, or whatever safe language makes your day
- They are just starting the project, so far only interpreter and runtime model
- It is based on CHERI CPU research (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/), which has memory tagging
- They are planning to open source the existing work in a couple of months
- Looking for collaboration
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
The slides don't really add much detail. They're just a light introduction to the sort of region-based memory management that was already being used by Cyclone, well before the Rust project was even a thing.
The video explains more: - Need to keep old insecure code around, too much money to rewrite the world from scratch in Rust, C#, or whatever safe language makes your day - They are just starting the project, so far only interpreter and runtime model - It is based on CHERI CPU research ( https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/ ), which has memory tagging - They are planning to open source the existing w…
> Need to keep old insecure code around
That's what process boundaries are for. (As a bonus, you get protection from any Spectre-like issues arising in the old code.)
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#35This slideshow is pretty interesting (in particular slide 14): https://www.slideshare.net/KTNUK/digital-security-by-design-... Talks about sandboxing C/C++ libraries that interact with Rust. Kinda make a safe unsafe sandbox Rust interface ("less unsafe?") if I understand it correctly (I likely don't). The actual linked article is all over the place, I cannot make heads or tails of it and seems to be conflating multip…
You really need to watch the video.
Basically a new language for system software and containers that allow to tame existing software, due to the expenses of rewriting everything into safe languages.
It is based on the CHERI tagged architecture.
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/
Just starting now, they have done the ground work, will open source it and are looking for collaborators.
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#36Video where this was introduced, which has more details: https://vimeo.com/376180843 Slides: https://www.slideshare.net/KTNUK/digital-security-by-design-...
Sylvan Clebsch and Sophia Drossopoulou (credited on Project Verona in a slide) work on the Pony, which has been described as a cross between Rust and Erlang.
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the world of for profit corporations I rather trust MS than any of the FAANG.
I think the amount of trust depends on the team and what they are supposed to deliver. For example, I think that VS Code and Power BI teams can be trusted to have monthly updates that improve the product. But on the other hand, I am never able to trust MS on shipping any language features, as I got burnt so hard by .NET Core 1.0 and F# tooling in VS2017.
I have always seemed them as political wars between WinDev and DevTools.
Google is much worse regarding Android development.
They reboot frameworks faster than MS, each IO the set of best practices is completely new, when something is finally working alright they come with the new one around the corner, I guess it was required the pressure of game developers to finally start having a more polished NDK.
Three teams competing for the mobile OS (ChromeOS, Android, Flutter), with a fourth one not clear what is coming out of it.
A Java subset nowadays cherry picked from OpenJDK, still most likely never to go beyond Java 8 and whatever they are able to desugar into what ART is capable of.
And I bet that if it wasn't for Flutter's uptake, JetPack Composer would never had happened.
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
The video explains more: - Need to keep old insecure code around, too much money to rewrite the world from scratch in Rust, C#, or whatever safe language makes your day - They are just starting the project, so far only interpreter and runtime model - It is based on CHERI CPU research ( https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/ ), which has memory tagging - They are planning to open source the existing w…
> Need to keep old insecure code around That's what process boundaries are for. (As a bonus, you get protection from any Spectre-like issues arising in the old code.)
Not everything can be neatly refactored out of a process.
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
The video explains more: - Need to keep old insecure code around, too much money to rewrite the world from scratch in Rust, C#, or whatever safe language makes your day - They are just starting the project, so far only interpreter and runtime model - It is based on CHERI CPU research ( https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/ ), which has memory tagging - They are planning to open source the existing w…
> Need to keep old insecure code around That's what process boundaries are for. (As a bonus, you get protection from any Spectre-like issues arising in the old code.)
Process boundaries don't protect against internal exploits, which is what most of the C and C++ exploits are all about.
If you are able to force a process to change its behaviour, the process boundaries become useless.
Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding
#40Oh no, I bet it's gonna be a C# flavored Rust. None of Rust's terse syntax and functional influence. It's going to be full-blown Java-style OOP with plenty of Wnd handles to be thrown around. Yikes, I certainly hope I am not right.
Rust#
I would gladly accept C# styled system language which has same safety and borrowing features as Rust.