Oakland shows how to expand housing supply: tell developers they can build homes

Post by generalpass » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

bonniemuffin wrote: post #31

huntertwo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two thoughts 1) Isn't a developer also making an investment when they build these high as hell micro-apartment apartment buildings? 2) How do you avoid a race to the bottom in terms of housing quality when you allow said micro-apartments? Do we want a culture where the poor are living in barely livable wage slave pods while the rich are living in abundant villas? I'm all for affordable housing but it seems too nuance…

Currently the poor are homeless or enduring multi-hour mega-commutes or stuffing a bunch of people into a single studio apartment. Well-located "barely livable wage slave pods" would be a huge improvement for a lot of people. I agree that the race to the bottom effect is a problem, but I think even the worst-case scenario would still be better than our existing housing situation.

Post by peteey » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

huntertwo wrote: post #24

arcticbull wrote: post #5

The whole topic of conversation around housing affordability is backwards. Specifically, housing affordability is 100%, entirely, a problem of artificial constraints on supply by city councils. (1) Americans consider housing to be an investment. An investment is only an investment if you expect a positive return over time. We generally want that investment to match or exceed inflation. (2) That's antithetical to the…

Two thoughts 1) Isn't a developer also making an investment when they build these high as hell micro-apartment apartment buildings? 2) How do you avoid a race to the bottom in terms of housing quality when you allow said micro-apartments? Do we want a culture where the poor are living in barely livable wage slave pods while the rich are living in abundant villas? I'm all for affordable housing but it seems too nuance…

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #42

huntertwo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two thoughts 1) Isn't a developer also making an investment when they build these high as hell micro-apartment apartment buildings? 2) How do you avoid a race to the bottom in terms of housing quality when you allow said micro-apartments? Do we want a culture where the poor are living in barely livable wage slave pods while the rich are living in abundant villas? I'm all for affordable housing but it seems too nuance…

> Do we want a culture where the poor are living in barely livable wage slave pods while the rich are living in abundant villas? The poor can always move away if space becomes a real problem. Plenty of "SF-poor" people outside CA who are actually living in "abundant villas" in their preferred locations.

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 3:02 PM UTC

pas wrote: post #33

Retric wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you’re saying, but that’s overly simplistic. Infrastructure costs increase as you increase density. Charging an appropriate fee for new housing rather than limiting the growth is an efficient solution, but current methods allow for local corruption. That’s just one of the hidden reasons for our current system. Another, is most people want to live as far as possible from poor people.

> Infrastructure costs increase as you increase density. They increase much slower than the efficiency gains from having a higher density and the rate of per capita costs decrease from having much more people pay for those costs.

Post by rb808 » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 3:09 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #49

edoo wrote: post #2

They forget the human cost. Increasing density decreases quality of life. The people are the product of the cities in the commercial sense. The well being of the people is lost in the drive for infinite growth.

You can always get to "decreased density" simply by moving away from the urban core. The jobs might not be as good, but that just goes to show that increased density does not necessarily involve a human cost.